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Infant feeding

Get advice and support with infant feeding from other users here.

Don't feel bad if BFing is hard, it's not your fault, it's your baby's.

28 replies

OPeaches · 25/12/2011 23:41

Okay, disclaimer: I am not claiming this is actually true, but it is my experience!!

We're told the key too sucessfu lbreastfeeding is good latching on and positioning, but that's not been my experience. I really feel like my breastfeeding failures and successes have been little to do with me and more to do with my baby.

When I had DS I battled to breastfeed, found it really hard, lots of problems, and he ended up completely on formula by 3 months. Various MWs and HVs tried to help me with latch and positioning. I was devestated, felt awful, felt such a failure.

So, when I was pregnant with DD I decided I would try to breastfeed but if that it didn't work out I'd make the decision to formula feed without all the guilt and crying this time. When DD was born I breastfed her. She is now almost 10 months old and still breastfed. I can honestly say I've never had anyone show me how to latch her on, from day one I have basically just plonked her on and she's got on with it. DD is just really good at breastfeeding, whereas DS wasn't.

My point (spectacularly badly made, but I've had quite a lot of Wine) is that we blame ourselves, but I really think that quite often it is far more to do with the baby than with the mum. Do you think there is any truth in it at all?

Please don't shout at me if you think it's all bollocks, I'm genuinely interested to know if anyone else has had the same experience.

OP posts:
catsareevil · 25/12/2011 23:43

I think that there is an element of the baby having to learn how to latch on properly.
At least after the first time it is only the baby who is having to learn how to do it, unlike with first babies where both mum and baby have to learn what to do.

Caz10 · 25/12/2011 23:44

More experienced with no2? Less stressed?

YuleingFanjo · 25/12/2011 23:46

I think you could have phrased it better but I won't shout as it's Christmas Xmas Wink

beatofthedrum · 25/12/2011 23:46

I agree, is totally different feeding number 2 as you've done it before (or at least tried). Not taking away from your success obv, that is great!

Casmama · 25/12/2011 23:54

I agree, although have only had one child but I remember the first time I fed him I was extremely cack-handed and thought - oh look he knows what to do. Breastfeeding was very straight forward for us but I am very aware from friends' and family's experiences that it is not always like that so count myself lucky.

OPeaches · 26/12/2011 00:02

Thanks all for not flaming me. Grin

There probably is something in the fact that she's my second child and second experience of breastfeeding, but I really don't think that's all there is to it. When she was born although I was aiming to breastfeed her, it was almost like I wasn't 'really trying' - I think I was trying to emotionally protect myself from that crushing feeling of failure if that makes any sense, i.e. if I failed it was because I didn't try rather than because I was shit at it.

OP posts:
lilham · 26/12/2011 08:17

I agree with you OP. My DD is my first. I wanted to bf, i havent bought any formula just in case, but I am not against formula. If DD struggled with bf and weight, I would have no problem ff her.

But from the moment she was born she just knows how to bf. She was plonked onto my chest for skin to skin when she was born. She just latched herself on and fed. Afterwards in the ward I put her onto cradle hold and she latched herself easily again. I vaguely knew about nose to nipple, but I never had to unlatch and reposition her. I never had cracked or sore nipples. It was never painful even slightly. She fed really fast (10min feeds from the start). Gained weight beautifully.

I know others struggle. But for our bf relationship, DD is the reason we succeeded. However I believe if the baby isn't such a natural, mothers can do a lot, with the help of people who knows, to help the baby latch on, and feed properly.

organiccarrotcake · 26/12/2011 10:48

It's neither the mother nor the baby's fault, opeaches :)

Women don't make babies - this miraculous things that our bodies do - that suddenly starve because they haven't been born with the instinct to breastfeed. The baby is literally part of the mother when he's inside her, and continued to be part of her when he's born - it's a dance, a partnership, a dyad.

Sadly though it's an incredible delicate dance. While humans are extremely flexible and able to cope with change which is why we're so succuessful as a species, labour, birth and breastfeeding relies of a complex set of hormones and physical ways of being that re interferred with in modern medicine. I watched a birthing programme last night where a labouring mum was told that the only risk of an epidural was that it may not take both sides. This is such a terrible lack of information. Epidurals lead to the mother not being able to move properly as her body is telling her - in fact she cannot hear her body at all. She's likely to labour on her back (the worst way possible) and is more likely to need an instrumental delivery or C-S. Even without this the baby is more likely to have had a harder time in delivery.

All these things potentially affect how the baby can latch. And this is just one single example. All labour drugs can affect feeding. A mal-presented baby can have a harder time after a harder labour. Instrumental birth for any reason can leave the baby in pain.

How a mother felt in labour can affect how her feeding goes - the hormones are so tightly woven with the physical aspects of breastfeeding.

Then there's social issues. Some mums understand newborn behaviour and how babies may be expected to be, especially when breastfed. Most don't as we've not experienced it. Some families are more accepting of BFing. Some give you the "are you feeding again?" Or "If I gave a bottle you could get some sleep/take the baby overnight/etc". Some women feel very uncomfortable about feeding in front of other people yet in those first days where the dance is most critical they are trying to also handle hoards of visitors.

And then there are those babies who are born with physical problems which make latching really hard such as tongue ties or cleft palate. Or babies with Downs Syndrome or other issues which make them very floppy, or hard to feed for other reasons. None of these things are the baby's fault, either :) But I know you didn't mean that.

What I think you're saying is that it's not the mum's fault and I wholeheartedly agree. But it's not the baby's fault, either :)

If anyone is to blame (and there is someone, generally, I believe) it's our healthcare system which does not explain the risks and benefits of apparent choices that we have (pain relief in labour, labouring location options, movement in labour), an obstetric culture which doesn't understand normal birth (failure to wait (technically known as failure to progress), early cord clamping (technically known as cord clamping - with what is physiologically normal still known as delayed CC), instrumental deliveries, vaginal examinations, artificial rupture of membranes, separation of mother and baby after birth, formula being given at birth.

It is also to blame for the terrible lack of proper support given to mothers postnatally - both in breastfeeding and general care - and because mothers continue to believe that midwives are trained to help in breastfeeding and unless they've done separate training, they're not. Same with Health Visitors.

Finally, our Government is to blame for allowing formula companies to advertise their product with the implication that it's a health product (follow on milks) and that it's an intrinsically safe product, implying that it's "as good as" breastmilk. And for bottle manufacturers to continue to use phrases such as "closer to nature" (my boobs don't look like that, frankly) and for not explaining that while formula is a life-giving product which we are very lucky to have access to, it should be access of last resort with national milk banking available to all and excellent, qualified and well followed-through breastfeeding support and information given to everyone.

AAAnd relax.

Right, I'm off to cook the turkey (CD is today for us).

determination · 26/12/2011 11:55

Oh ita with OCC where our HS and Gov are to blame for it.

However, Peach I can totally relate to you. Both my dds where terrible at bfing and I had a good knowledge of bfing when I had dd2 (being a bfing support worker). Also, I was far mote confident and calmer with dd2 but she was just terrible at bfing and could not properly latch FOR MONTHS! I had all the support from friends who were bfing councillors and I was doing everything right. She did not have any physical Tongue tie or anything. It was just her!!

But after approx 4 months when she got bigger things improved and we carried on until she was 2 Grin

OPeaches · 26/12/2011 16:31

OCC, thank you for your lengthy answer, you have put it all beautifully, and made some very good points.

Determination, I'm so glad you agree with me. While OCC is right in all her points, I really do think some babies are just more naturally talented at breastfeeding! I started thinking about it when a friend asked me for advice bfing her baby - she said she knew she could ask me as I'd always been so great at bfing. I had to tell her I really had no clue, directed her here instead!

OP posts:
EdlessAllenPoe · 26/12/2011 16:35

i think there is some truth in what you say...my dd was a sleepy kitten with a tiny mouth that barely circled one of my flat, squishy ginormo-nipps if she could be bothered to latch on to it.

DS grabbed a boob and started feeding with every sign of enjoyment directly after birth.

Yuuule · 26/12/2011 16:43

Totally agree with you Opeaches.
I've bf 9 babies. Some just didn't know how to open their mouths properly and initially just seemed to be going through the motions of feeding. I had to physically open their mouths wider in the beginning to get them latched on.

Some were like ducks to water and once started never looked back.

gallicgreetings · 26/12/2011 16:48

I had a great birth but DD just didn't seem to get the hang of staying latched on.

Unfortunately the NHS just isn't geared up to helping with BF and they would rather babies are fed formula in order to put on weight. In all our BF issues, no-one bothered to give us the time to work it out or give us the support we needed. It was easier for HCPs if we FF. Box ticked, bye bye patient.

SootySweepandSue · 26/12/2011 16:59

Yeah my DD never latched...Just didn't get the nack of pushing her tongue out (was checked for TT too). No idea why...I expressed for 10 weeks then switched to FF.

organiccarrotcake · 26/12/2011 18:27

Apologies for all typos earlier. Was rushing (obv long) post as relatives arrived through the door and didn't have time to proof read!

OPeaches · 26/12/2011 20:10

Please don't apologise OCC, your reply was appreaciated. (And anyway, it was far more coherent than my OP!)

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HL76 · 26/12/2011 22:17

Totally agree with you OP, have often thought of posting the same thing. This is a very important point I feel as many mums give up bf reluctantly and blame themselves when really it's the babies!

I have 3 DC and was only able to bf one of them past 4 weeks, this was DC2. the other 2 babies were very sleepy and quite frankly too lazy to breast feed and put on weight. They seemed to take enough milk to keep themselves ticking over but not enough to actually grow! I have always had plenty of milk and have been able to express loads each time. So yes, there is huge baby element to breastfeeding.

HL76 · 26/12/2011 22:18

I fed dc2 to 11 months btw so at least I succeeded once :)

emilyarm · 28/12/2011 20:20

Great thread! I recently started topping up DD when my supply seemed low and was miserable for weeks. Could barely talk about it without crying coz I felt like such a failure. But various things had caused problems for me. DD would hang on the breast for ever, which meant I got a lot of 'she's having a long feed' comments, so I started taking her off,probably before she'd finished. She also preferred one side, which was stressful and I got a raft of rubbish advice from HVs and MWs. So also agree with organicarrotcake that it's a bit of everything which can make it hard.

The thing is, sometimes the otherwise great support given by BFCs can make you feel that you should always be able to resolve BFing problems, so if you don't manage it, you feel like its your fault. It's an unfortunate, unintended consequence of the thoroughly necessary promotion of BFing.

Ozziegirly · 29/12/2011 05:37

I agree OP! I was all ready to breastfeed. Went to a class, had support from midwives and lactation consultant. DS would latch on and then just sit there, not sucking.

Nothing anyone could do to encourage him to suck, so I expressed for weeks until mastits and actually needing to do things with him rather than just be attached to a machine took over.

If people said in a sad voice"Oh aren't you breastfeeding?" I just said "well, yes I wanted to but he didn't".

Next time if the baby won't feed I certainly won't be feeling all sad if they decide not to feed from me, I shall just get on with formula feeding and realise that feeding is one tiny bit of parenting.

nooka · 29/12/2011 06:07

I've always said that my babies seemed to know what to do, and so ascribe my 'success' to them (both were latched on by a midwife shortly after birth, and we never looked back really). Somehow the other way around seems wrong, but then that may be because professionally I spend a lot of my time telling other people to avoid attributing blame as although very human it's very unhelpful (I'm a risk manager).

ninjasquirrel · 29/12/2011 07:00

If a baby's no good at latching on at first, it's not necessarily because the mother had a medicalised birth. DS was like this - just didn't seem interested in the first 24 hours - and he was born after a very straightforward labour with no drugs. Luckily he and I eventually worked it out, and we did have a couple of lovely midwives who helped at first.

madmomma · 29/12/2011 19:59

Totallt agree OP. I was quite self righteous with dc1 as, after the 1st week she fed like a dream for 2 and a half years . Fast forward 13 yrs to her brother, and he bloody hated it. I did exactly the same with both of them, but he lost too much weight & was thoroughly miserable until he went on bottles at 3 weeks. Now with dc3 and she is a little dyson - again I've done exactly the same, and she just knows exactly what she's doing & just gets on with it. I always thought people who turned to FF just couldn't be arsed trying hard enough. I have eaten several slices of humble pie since. They really are all different.

OPeaches · 01/01/2012 17:36

So nice to hear people have shared my experience. Thanks all for sharing.

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cory · 03/01/2012 09:48

I think it totally depends on the individual case.

In my case it was certainly about the baby. She has Ehlers Danlos syndrome which was only diagnosed 8 years later and it was not until she was 10 that the OT asked if she hadn't struggled with breastfeeding- and all the pieces feel into place.

It had nothing to do with me or my state of feelings during labour (I was fine) or the state of support at the local hospital (which was high quality) or any happy delicate dance between us (we bonded extremely well).

Dd couldn't suckle for the same reason that she wasn't able to walk yesterday and is unable to get out of bed today.

Obviously, in anything like a "natural" world a child like that would have died in infancy. This is how Evolution works: our wonderful bodies are not meant to ensure that every single individual conceived survives into adulthood, only enough to ensure the survival of the species. Indeed, you could say that the ones not fit for survival are meant to die. However, I rather like dd, so I have kept her alive anyway just to annoy Evolution Grin

But it always annoys me when somebody says that X or Y can't go wrong because our bodies are designed to do it right. If only people would pay attention in biology lessons. Or watch David Attenborough or something.

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