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Infant feeding

Get advice and support with infant feeding from other users here.

Stupid question about breastfeeding

44 replies

Rhinestone · 22/12/2011 19:18

Ok, stupid question coming up but it's a genuine one borne of a desire to learn so please don't flame me.

Before I ask the question I'll say that I'm very much intending to bf DC1 (due end of July) but have no judgement or criticism of other people's choices on the bf / ff debate.

The question is this -

Breastfeeding is perfectly natural and was around for thousands of years before the modern world. So why do we need lessons / lactation consultants / La Leche League etc? Confused Isn't it rather obvious what you do? And doesn't it come naturally? You don't hear of animals needing lessons so what's different with humans?

As I said, this really is a genuine question and something I've always wanted to ask but been afraid to IRL. Thanks!

OP posts:
FriggFRIGGYPudding · 22/12/2011 19:43

Grin@ organic.

hazchem · 22/12/2011 19:48

i might be jumping in a bit in the wrong way but here goes.

I found breastfeeding easy. It felt natural and right we both (baby and I) managed to get latch quickly. I think that this is because from a very young age I have been around breast feeding woman.
Basically I think the fact I saw lots of breastfeeding and knew it to be normal made it easier for me.

RitaMorgan · 22/12/2011 19:50

I found it quite easy/natural too. I didn't go to any classes or need a support group or anything - but I did get some help on day 1/2 from my mum. After that we were fine. Not everyone struggles.

fluffylegs · 22/12/2011 19:50

I think it's a very good question. As I understand it bFing got interfered with in the 50s. So bottle feeding became the norm. As a consequence women don't automatically know / understand about bFing.

It's not really that inherently complicated but our culture has complicated it somewhat.

TruthSweet · 22/12/2011 19:50

Sorry - wasn't intended to be defensive just explanatory (and a bit rushed as the DDs needed me to help with bedtime).

I'd never seen a woman bf (except for one tiny glimpse of a mum 'cuddling' a baby when I was 17) and I had my first at 26 and I grew up in a middle class affluent town. I wish I'd seen lots of mums bfing or been shown how to do it before I needed to do it.

At the risk of being defensive again, also a lot of birth practices impede babies feeding instincts - being taken away from mum at birth for cleaning/wrapping, some medications administered during labour (which may be very necessary but that doesn't lessen the impact on baby), nurseries, no skin to skin....

I was reading recently about some Obstetricians that were amazed at the idea of babies bfeeding in the first hour of life (think it was a report from a conference in the 70s??) as their experience told them it took hours, possibly days for a baby to start bfing.

organiccarrotcake · 22/12/2011 19:54

Oh, excellent point, Truthsweet. Yes, that's a huge part of why breastfeeding can be difficult for many women. Forceps, C-sections, ventouse, early cord clamping and resus, babies being forced onto the breast by midwives, baby-mother separation...

None of these things stop breastfeeding, and often they don't interfere in any way at all on an individual level. But overall they impact hugely and being aware of those impacts and also aware that they can be overcome with the right help is really important.

TruthSweet · 22/12/2011 19:54

Organic - I'd better not tell you I've just come back down from giving a 4y and a 2y their bedtime Bah, if a 8m and a 15m old shocks you

Rhinestone - Like OCC I'm happy to have PMs if you want to (am peer/mother supporter and trainee BFC [and crappy typer with dying Netbook])

organiccarrotcake · 22/12/2011 19:57

truthsweet snurk right back at you Grin

JugglingWithGoldandMyrhh · 22/12/2011 20:04

I found breastfeeding very natural and straightforward. dd1 took to it easily within about 5 minutes of birth (as soon as given opportunity) ds also later bf very easily straight after birth.

During pregnancy one of our NCT antenatal classes was run by a lovely friendly breast-feeding counsellor - from which I mainly learnt, using a doll, the importance of having baby really facing you - so I guess some tips on position. Latch came pretty naturally to dd and ds though.

I guess I was lucky and hope you will be too Xmas Smile

AppleAndBlackberry · 22/12/2011 20:28

I never saw a counsellor but It took me two babies to really figure out how to latch well.

I think some of it is confidence too though.

GurlwiththeFrothyCurl · 22/12/2011 20:33

Ds1 was difficult to start with - difficult birth so was very sleepy and had no sucking reflex. It took me a few days and a lot of tears until he got going. Fantastic support from DH helped enormously. DS2 fed about five minutes after the birth and was easy peasy until he had a strike at 12 months. As I didn't know any better, we stopped then, which made me very sad. DS1 stopped at 13 months. Apart from the shaky start, I had no problems at all, thankfully.

But this was all 20 years ago and we had very little help then. I had little experience of watching bf babies. My own mum only bf my brother for a while in front of me and then put him on Carnation! My sister bf her DCs, but I didn't see it often. MIL and SILs bf their kids, which is why DH was so supportive.

If I had had the Internet in those days I think I would probably have fed both DSs for a lot longer as I would have known it was possible. Instead, I got a lot of pressure to follow strict routines from MIL, although I resisted that idea, and to stop altogether at 9 months. At least these days there is a huge amount of easily available information and MN of course!

JugglingWithGoldandMyrhh · 22/12/2011 20:34

And nipples possibly AppleandBlackberry - mine are like chapel hat pegs ! Xmas Blush

( What, this is a public forum - why didn't anyone tell me ! )

BertieBotts · 22/12/2011 20:58

I think that if breastfeeding is your "default mode", e.g. if you've seen many women breastfeeding, if children in your family have been breastfed, if your female relatives did, you "breastfed" your dolls, the conversations you overheard about babies when you were little and subconsciously learning revolved around breast rather than bottle feeding, etc etc, it's much more likely that you'll be au fait with the norms of breastfeeding, and come from breastfeeding as a point of reference.

I think that many problems start off because women are subconsciously comparing the way their breasts work to how bottles work, because bottlefeeding is their "default mode". So the whole worrying about breasts needing time to "fill up", talking about full and empty breasts, a real need to know how much the baby has had on a measurable scale, worrying that you might not have enough milk, thinking that if the baby is feeding often that means you don't have much milk, or concerns about hindmilk & foremilk, these all come from assuming (subconsciously) that breasts work like bottles which need to be filled up, can hold a set amount, and that amount is fixed, although it can be affected by various factors.

It's not even that simple - remember as well that most TV programmes show babies being bottlefed, most baby feeding dolls come with plastic bottles, most people over the last 50-60 years bottlefed, which means most people in your parents' and possibly grandparents' generation, they will have been influenced by this, shifting them into the bottlefeeding "default mode" and the baby-feeding assumptions related to this (comparing breasts to bottles). If they are of a particular generation, they may well have been told that formula milk is superior, that breastfeeding should be done to scientific "guidelines" (ie, on a strict routine) and that many women do not manage to make enough milk or "rich" enough milk. They may have passed this on to their children too. Many people, even if not you personally, are affected by this bottlefeeding culture.

So - even if you have had excellent role models and are laid back and know how breastfeeding works, consider that others who you trust - health professionals, friends, family, may well have been influenced by the bottlefeeding culture or their own background and experience and be set in a bottlefeeding default mode, making these comparisons which would never occur to you, or making worrying-sounding observations such as "She's dropping centiles" or "She's feeding a lot, isn't she?!" or "You must feed for X number of minutes to get the hindmilk" - and because you (most likely) live and/or have grown up within a bottlefeeding culture, these concerns start to sound quite logical. You don't think to look up how breastmilk production works, because it makes sense - it's only been ten minutes since the last feed, your breasts must be empty! That is why she is fussing! And she's not following the centile line and and and... and you get into a spiral of new-mum worry which could have been totally avoided if everyone you spoke to had had breastfeeding as their default mode/position and model on which to base "normal" baby behaviour.

(I'm not even going to get into the whole subject of problems which can occur even if you know everything and have the most expert help, this is purely why I think breastfeeding support organisations are important in modern society where they perhaps weren't before.)

BertieBotts · 22/12/2011 21:01

Yes Juggling that's an excellent example. We did that in NCT classes too. Someone hands you a doll/stuffed animal, announces "Now hold your baby as though you were breastfeeding them".

Every single person in the room, 14 of us (mums and dads!) held the baby facing upwards, with it's tummy facing the ceiling. Why did we do that? Because that's how you hold a baby to feed it with a bottle! It's just tiny tiny little things like this that you don't even realise that you have got "wrong" - it's ingrained. It's slightly worrying!

TruthSweet · 22/12/2011 21:10

Bertie - That was an absolutely beautiful post. I really enjoyed reading it!

PengPeng · 22/12/2011 21:16
BertieBotts · 22/12/2011 21:22

Blush thank you!

flamegirl77 · 22/12/2011 21:25

Remember that after the birth, even if intervention free, you may be knackered and in pain and may find this new skill hard for that reason alone. You can't assume that will be the case but it is possible.

RhinestoneCowgirl · 22/12/2011 21:30

Bertie has said all the important stuff!

I was just drawn to the thread as the OP has Rhinestone in her name... (I'll get me coat)

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