Newborn breastfeeding support thread (plus support for people planning to BF)

[smk84]

Hi all, I thought it would be a good idea to start a thread where we can discuss the questions we have about breastfeeding in preparation for our babies being born. We could also post questions here once our babies are born, share our experiences and support one another. I will post some links that people might find useful (thank you to wormshuffler, Albrecht,bertiebotts and crikeybadger for these). Any more suggestions would be welcome.

The Best Beginnings Website here
Kellymom is a great website. There is a link to their newborn page here
Information on co-sleeping on the UNICEF Baby Friendly Initiative website here.There is also lots more info on this site.
Biological Nurturing website here
Thought it would also be nice to post our due dates/baby born dates here

Smk84, DC2 due 5/6/11, DS1 born 1/5/09

So and so, crikeybadger, thank you for asking. He's pooing fine now, one or two a day. The problem I have is with cluster feedings in the evenings because yesterday for the first time I just did not have enough to sustain 4 hours on and off my breasts and he was getting frustrated because my boobs were pretty much empty by the end of it. I know it's not the end of the world but being very hormonal 7 days post delivery it just made me cry plus I suppose I was pretty much exhausted too. I really want this to work and I'm so worried that I just can't produce enough to keep him happy in the evenings. Instead I'm quite engorged early afternoon. I don't know if it's my body not being that efficient at producing milk when it needs to. I suppose it doesn't help that his feeding times are so erratic and seem to change daily. I have expressed with a pump yesterday when I was very engorged so I suppose I could try to give him that in the evening if I haven't got enough. The problem is that the pump really makes my breasts sore so I'm reluctant to use it.
Is this normal? Any ideas?

vanillacreme - soft 'empty' feeling breasts make milk far quicker than 'full' hard breasts. Also not all the ducts are at the same stage of production so while one duct may be almost empty (but still working to make more milk) another duct will have more milk in it (and be making milk too). Good info on how milk production works here.

Cluster feeding can be driven by hunger and/or other needs like a need to be close to mum during the most dangerous part of the day (historically of course as dusk is full of hungry predators looking for food but the average semi in Slough isn't!), warmth, help maintaining their breathing/heartrate (babies take their breathing/heartrate cues from mum[and dad] so if they are close to you they don't have to work it out themselves), etc, etc.

Sometimes it helps to not think of breast feeding baby but nursing baby instead. Germany has a great word stillen (literally calming) which they use for bfing as it's recognised bfing isn't all about the food.

The pump may be making you sore if a) the vacuum/suction is set to high (or you are using a manual pump too vigorously), b) the breast shield doesn't fit right this is how to fit a Medela breast shield but the principle is the same for other brands. Depending on the brand you may be able to get a shield in a different size to fit (of the top of my head - Medela, Ameda, and Ardo do different sizes).

THANK YOU very much for your message truthsweet. I've done quite a lot of reading through the links that you sent me and I've come to the conclusion that the Medela Swing pump that I've been using is not right for me or maybe it's the shield which is the wrong size. I've only used it a few times and it always hurts and tends to make breast feel very hard on the side.
This morning I've tried to breastfeed in the dangling position and to massage the sore area while the baby was sucking and I think it's better already. I'll also try a hot flannel to try to unblock the ducts if they're clogged.
What I don't understand is the lack of support and understanding of breastfeeding from healthcare professionals. Even if you find a good midwife they don't really have time to explain breastfeeding in detail or to sit next to you and show you patiently what to do. They're more concerned with the typical government driven "tick box" approach; "Is the baby feeding ok?" "Is he having at least 6 wet nappies in a day?" etc etc...
I'm very grateful for the help that I'm getting from this forum

Glad to be able to help. It can be tough in the early days if you are lacking in real life, knowledgeable support.

The trouble is a lot of HCP only know the tickbox stuff, they don't know the ins and outs (or ups and downs) or bfing a real life baby so they fall back on those boxes when asked questions outside of their comfort zone.

If you asked 'How many wet nappies should baby be having?', you'd get an answer straight away, if you asked 'Why does my letdown tingle in my left side but not my right?' you might not get an sensible answer!

If pumping is painful, you could try hand expressing as that is gentler and you can pay attention to the parts of the breast that have been clogged while still getting milk out. Lots of resources to choose from here.

vanilla, our DS (4month old) has been cluster feeding on an evening/night since about 8wks old, and this was very intense for a while (and exhausting!), but now has calmed down a lot. he still feeds more often on evenings than during the day, but its not as intense now, so trust me when i say it doesnt last forever and you're not doing anything wrong! your dc will be getting milk, even when your boobs feel totally deflated. i also found i was more relaxed with the feeding when i stopped clock-watching (only natural i know), and didnt focus on when he's "due a feed" - not helped by the rellies who know nowt about bfing, and constantly ask when next feed is!
when DS was born he was on SCBU for 3 wks, so i was expressing milk to give for tube feeding til we could get EBF established. the MW told me to start the pump on the lowest setting, gradually increase til i felt a slight nip, then turn it down a fraction (one 'click'), and that would provide enough suction without being painful. also, if expressing due to engorgement to only express enough to make it comfortable rather than emptying the boob, so to speak, so it didnt interfere with the supply while its still sorting itself out in the early days. it would probably be worth checking the fit of the shield too.
i go to a "bosom buddies" group run at the local childrens centres, so it might be worth a look , as they have bf counsellors, of peer supporters there, who are happy to give advice and answer any questions, and frankly are better qualified than some of the so called HCPs i've come across.

So just a little update. I took him to the midwife today to get them to check his weight as he's now 8 days old and to discuss the painful breast as it's not going away.
So it's good new on the weight side of things as he's got his birth weight back + 2 oz which I believe is pretty good? I'm quite proud that all that nourishment has come from me
However, the midwife thinks he's got thrush. Now I would like to hear what you guys think because I'm not convinced that he does and obviously I don't want to treat him if he doesn't need to.
Basically, at times he's got what looks like off milk on his tongue because it's clotty and the midwife noticed that today and thought it must be thrush because I've got a painful breast. The thing is, can't the milk be half digested milk that comes up from his stomach? He's always got a white tongue but not the clotty milk. That only seems to be there when he spits up after a while that he's been fed. As for my breast, it could be blocked ducts rather than thrush, can't it?
I don't really know what to do. I've been told to contact my GP and ask for thrush treatment for both of us but I'm really not sure it's necessary! Please help!

Highly unikely to be thrush - too often, this is a diagnosis offered when nothing else comes to mind! Your baby is v. young for this, and lumps in the breast are really not a thrush sign.

www.breastfeedingnetwork.org.uk/leaflets-and-publications.html

Give one of the helplines a call.

Great news he is doing so well :)

tiktok that's the impression I got...she diagnosed thrush just like that without even looking at my breast. I've read the leaflet and the one about mastitis and the problem is the symptoms don't really fit neatly in either. The main thing is shooting pain in my right breast and it being very hard to the touch on the side. It's worse when it's full of milk. Breastfeeding is a bit uncomfortable but not painful.
I've tried to give the helpline a call but no reply. Will try again later.
I'll try to see my GP too and see what he says

Well done on the weight gain vanillac- yes, you should feel proud of that.

Agree with tiktok that thrush is often over diagnosed. There's a new bfn leaflet about thrush here which says that most pain in these early weeks is rarely due to thrush, but more likely as a result of poor positioning and attachment.

Do you have a bfing support group near you where so. can watch you feed?

So I've just come back from my GP for whom I've got a lot of respect. He agrees that it's not obvious it's thrush and we should not get treated unless it is more likely to be that. He gave me the drops but said to hold off just yet. The one thing that made him think it might be thrush is his tongue which is very white. He's always had a white tongue and I'm not sure if this is normal?
What do the experts think? Many thanks again for your help!

Hello everyone. I haven't read the whole thread but I need some help.

DS2 is 5 days old and latching him on is a nightmare. He bobs around and tries to attach, sucks once or twice and comes off, crying. He doesn't seem to be able to suck the nipple far enough into his mouth. He can open his mouth wide but tends not to. Eventually after battling for 10mins or so he will latch on if I squeeze my nipple into a wedge and shove it into his mouth (or shove him onto the nipple). He tends to fall asleep quickly on the breast and feeds for only 10mins at a time. I'm sure he's just sucking on the nipple, without much breast in his mouth. When he comes off, my nipples are misshapen; lipstick-shaped.

He's sleepy generally but has alert periods

He's producing several yellow nappies per day and decent amounts of wee

He was weighed at 3 days and had lost 6% of his body weight (he was 8lb 3oz at birth). He was weighed again today (day 5) and has stayed the same . The MW wasn't concerned but I am!

I don't think he's tongue tied (can protrude and lift tongue tip) but this hasn't been officially checked.

I had the NCT bf counsellor over and we found the vertical position worked while she was here, but it hasn't since

Sorry for the monster post. I had such a nightmare with DS1 and getting bfing established (he was prem) that I dread having the same issues again, and I don't want to head off down the path of 'bad latch' if I can head it off at the start!

Thanks for reading (if you've got this far!). Any ideas??

Hi MistressP- congrats on your new one.

My suggestions would be-
Have a go at an exaggerated latch or flipple. See the (russian) animation here.

Personally I wouldn't rule out tongue tie because he can stick his tongue out. Have a read of this piece from Milk Matters.

Also worth a google is biological nurturing.

The way your nipples are coming out shows that something is going on in there that is not right- quite what that is, I'm not sure. But with the right help and support you can get this sorted.

Personally I'd agree with the mw that the weight is OK- it's only been 2 days since the last weigh in after all. Did the mw give you any tips for getting a better latch?

Finally, lots of skin to skin if you can and try and respond to his early feeding cues so that he comes to the breast calmly.

Hope some of this helps- sorry if I've just overwhelmed you with references.

Dashing, so brief....but that weight is ok. You don't expect babies to be gaining by day 5, just that they have stopped losing, and your baby ticks that box :)

Sorry I haven't read whole thread to see if this had ben answered, but am struggling with mobile mn!

Have 4 week ds, bf finally falling into place...mostly, just wanted to check - the painful electric shock sensations that occur in my nipples at random - is that let down do you think?

Hi cakes, I am not sure if it is let down, but I certainly had that with DS and it did ease off. For me it was mainly just after latching.
Welcome vanilla and mistress. It's great that you have been getting support here. I am sorry not to have been on here before now, although it's probably no loss as I know very little by comparison to others. But I do want to say well done you are both obviously very committed to BF.
How is everyone getting on today?

Hi smk84. I'm very engorged today but tritino to resist the temptation to pump in the hope that sooner or later my body will get it that I didn't give birth to triplets!
Baby still gagging and choking on breastmilk during feeds and on reflux but I haven't had any more scary occurrences of lips going blue so I'm hoping that he's already learned to cope with it better.
makesakes I remember reading your thread in the pregnancy section when you went into labour! I still had a couple of weeks to go and was up every night for a good few hours, eating and browsing MN! Strange because i almost feel nostalgic remembering those last few weeks even though at the time I couldn't wait to have the baby! Anyway, I do get random shooting pains too in between feeds. I think it's my breasts overproducing and wanting to be emptied even though it's not quite an "electric shock" sensation.
I've read on Kelly's Mom that one way of reducing oversupply is to feed only from one breast at a time. Has anyone tried it and has it worked?

Marking my place as this is a great thread.

I have a six-day old DD who has been very sleepy - have been given lots of support on these boards in general

Vanilla - I was giving just one breast at a time and wondering why I was having to feed so often! When the mw suggested I change him then offer the other boob I felt a bit silly, especially when ds fell on it like I hadn't fed him in a week!

Supply seems ti have remained constant however...
God, can't believe that labour thread was nearly 5 weeks ago - still feels very fresh!

I do have a question.

How do so many people I know seem to get out and about within days of giving birth while still BF-ing? DD is 1 week old and we haven't been anywhere - spent the first five days in hospital, came home on Sunday. Her temperature dropped rather alarmingly when we came home so I have been reluctant to take her out for that reason, but she is now back to normal. Other than that, I can't really find time to take her off the breast!

I have an older DD and LOTS of help right now, but when it's just me with the girls, it's a struggle. Last night had a nightmare getting DD1 to bed as she could hear DD2 mewling next door (mid-cluster feed, I had to break off to tend to DD1 as DH had to go back to work). So I went back and forth between two crying babies for a good hour before DH came home!

Hi vanilla , so sorry to hear about the choking - that must be very stressful. like you say hopefully not having lips go blue is a sign that he is learning to cope better.
Flying I do empathise, but afraid I can't answer your question as I only have one DS, so wondering myself how I will cope when DC 2 arrives in June !How old is your DD1?

Hello everyone!

Flying, my 14 day old was/is sleepy too. I'm letting him sleep a bit longer at night now he's regained his birthweight but I do wake him if he goes much over 5hrs.

His latching-on is still pretty rubbish but I think it's getting better...

I'm just marking a place as DC3 is due in June and I would like to BF this one.