1week old, having top ups but I'm desperate to EBF.

[BeeMyBaby]

I've posted similar in my ante(post)natal thread but was hoping from input from anyone who was willing.

DD2 was born 9 days ago, she was BF only until day 5, when MW said she had lost over 13% of her birth weight and would be hospitalised if I didn't give top ups of 30-40ml every three hours. The tops up are generally half EBF and half formula.
As she keeps getting top-ups she is not waking every 3 hours so I am having to wake her, and she continues to be too sleepy (after being responsive for the first 3 days after birth) to latch on. My supply is better but I am going to try to get some fenugreek this weekend.
Sometimes she drinks loads (50mls earlier after a short period on the breast) but at least her weight loss is now just under 5%. I really don't know if I could face having to FF feed her and its getting me really down, I felt as if I was bonding really well with her but now I just keep getting frustrated.
Her suck is very poor although it was initially very good, but my milk took till day 4 to come in and it is thought that it tired her out too much. I can generally just slide her off without having to detach her with my finger from the breast. On day 3 my nipples were blistered and scabby (sorry if tmi), but now they are completely healed and pain free as she has not been willing to suck. Any suggestions would be greatly received, her top ups are given by her sucking my finger (which shows she actually has a strongish suck) and a syringe), I've tried stripping her down for skin to skin but she still doesn't bother to suck past a couple of minutes generally.

bumping for you as I am no expert

My thoughts would be to stop the top ups as she has gained in the last 4 days (what was her initial weight?)

maybe try a few days of just focussing on the breast feeding now that your milk is in, as it sounds like she is finding the syringe easier and maybe can't be bothered with breast now. Also are there any breastfeeding cafes clinics you can get to today to get the latch checked?

congratulations on your little girl, I hope this stress about weight isn't ruining your time with her. I found expressing to be soul destroying hard work, so well done for managing to find time to do that as well!

BeeMyBaby - what a difficult start :(

Is the midwife still seeing you? Now would be the time to really discuss again what to do. It sounds as if the weight loss has been addressed, and it may be possible to reduce the supplements - don't just stop them, as phasing out this much formula needs to be done gradually in order to allow your breastmilk to build up to take its place.

If your top ups are half formula, then my my reckoning she is getting 150 mls, which is a lot for a newborn, and too much just to 'wipe out'. But you might want to talk to the midwife about reducing the ebm/formula top ups to 20 mls, say, and not every feed.

To build up your breastmilk, you will need to feed your baby a lot - 3 hourly is nowhere near enough, really, to get good stimulation. She can be in your arms skin to skin for as much of the time as you can make it, and you can respond to every feeding cue with an offer of the breast....switch sides frequently (it's called 'switch nursing' - google it or look here in mumsnet archives) and use breast compression (ditto).

The midwife might be able to come to see you and your baby today if you call her. Tackling this today, rather than having you drift over the weekend, is important - hope you get good help.

If you can get hold of Medela Haberman teats they are great for babies that need to suckle bottle and breast. Even slow flow teats make it too easy for babies to get milk out of bottle so they become lazy suckers. The Medela Haberman teat makes a baby actively suck to get milk and stops them getting lazy.

Tiktok has given some great advice too. It is possible to get back on track with breastfeeding but you are going to need a lot of support around you. Ensure that your partner knows that you are going to need this support for at least the next 4-5 weeks. You need to concentrate on feeding your baby - it might seem like a long time now, but those weeks will fly by.

Good luck. When it all gets bad I find a piece of chocolate cake and a small glass of wine works wonders.

Great advice. Also, you could try a full on babymoon- where you and lo spend a couple of days in bed, just skin to skin with nappy on. Bf at every opportunity. You'll need someone else to prepare your ff top-ups and doing everything else in the house. Have drinks, food and snacks to hand, so you can really focus on bf and sleep. Get mw to show you how to feed lying down- it's a lifesaver! Once you get bf established it will be so worth the effort you are putting in now- it does get easier- promise!

Congratulations on your new baby, and good luck!

MWs are generally very supportive of BFing, so yes you should definitely get one to visit asap. They usually discharge you from MW care into the care of HVs at around 10 days post-partum, so make sure you get that support and say you don't want to be discharged until you've got this sorted. My experience of HVs has been very negative with BFing - they all seem far too eager to suggest top-ups (and that's the slippery slope to full-on FF).

What else can you do? I would suggest if you need further support to contact La Leche League. They have far more expertise with EBF than anyone in the NHS and will be able to give you good advice about building up your supply.

My experience, as a mother who has EBF two babies, is that you need to put baby to the breast often in those early days to build up supply. This is true even if you aren't supplementing with formula. If your baby has a weak suck it could well be because she's being bottle-fed and the mouth action needed for bottle-feeding is much less than for breast. The baby really needs to suck hard to get the milk out of your breast and if she's sleepy, full of formula milk and used to being bottle fed you've got to get her used to feeding from your breast.

So, if it was me, I would immediately start to cut down those formula feeds. You can't just go cold turkey on them because you need to build up your own supply, but you can give her the breast first at every feed and during the day you need to put her to the breast two hourly. It's okay for her to have one longer sleep (say 4-5 hours), at night, but the rest of the time she needs to be stimulating your milk supply and letting your body know it needs to make lots of milk!

Remember to stay well hydrated - keep a glass of water at your side at all times - and eat a nutritious, well-balanced diet as this will keep you both in good health. Good luck!

Did they say why she would be hospitalised? Because my DD lost more than 13% (nearly 2lb) and now at 5 weeks is still 1lb lighter than her birthweight. None of the midwives, HVs, clinics etc have seemed concerned.

I'm no expert but from my experience it is possible to get back to EBF.

DS lost 11% by day 5 and 13% by day 7, at which point we were sent down to our local hosp. We were told that we had to top him up 80ml after each BF and they wanted to admit us over night. To cut a long story short I refused, we went home and I topped him up over night but he'd only take about 20-25ml each time. We went back the next day to have repeat bloods and his weight checked again and everything was looking much better.

I contacted a BF peer supporter who came over and spent 2 hours chatting through everything, including expressing options (none of this happened at the hosp, there we were basically told top him up with formula, no BF advice given at all!). I spent that weekend feeding him or having him close to the breast constantly and when he was re-weighed after 4 days he'd put on 9oz.

He's now 5wks and over the last week he's put on over a lb so finally I'm starting to relax a bit about EBF.

Sorry for waffling but I just wanted to let you know that I was in your position but with the right help I've managed to get on track and things are going well. Good luck

I'm another whose baby had lost 11.5% by day 5 (and he was a big baby, so it was a huge amount to lose) due to a bad combination of latch and supply problems. I'm lucky that I had a BRILLIANT midwife who, instead of insisting on top-ups, told me to go back to bed, eat lots of good carbs (as if I was about to run a marathon) feed all the time and express as much as I could as well, anything to get my supply up. I didn't leave the house for nearly a week, DH did all the cooking, and I hung out in bed watching DVDs on the laptop and feeding the baby.

After that I got in touch with the lactation consultant who had done the breastfeeding part of our NCT course -- she was amazing and I think is the reason I'm still breastfeeding. Really worth it even though it felt like a daunting step to take.

My boy was back to his birth weight by 3 weeks despite the big drop. Like NoodieRoodie, the weight gain every few days was really significant. He's 3 months now, feeds like a demon and is gaining weight exactly as he's supposed to, and he's still EBF.

I would absolutely suggest talking to lactation consultant. Some breastfeeding drop-ins will be run by proper lactation consultants, but others are run by HVs and are nowhere near as good. LLL or NCT can put you in touch with someone qualified.