four hour feeds

[me2002]

Hi, :)
i was fed every 4 hoursfrom the day i was born. I would be woken up if i was asleep and distracted if i wanted more before 4 hours was up. It never did me any harm, and by the age of 7 weeks was sleeping right through the night. I know alot of people these days do feed on demand but im wondering if this really is any good or needed for baby? My little one is due in a few weeks and would really like peoples input so i can make an informed choice to when/how i will feed him.
Thanks :)

me when you say that it never did you any harm, have you got any information on what you did between those 4 hours? Some babies do wish to be fed more often and can get very distressed if you make them wait. How are you planning on dealing with the crying if your baby does not want to wait till the next feed?

Have you read any books on feeding or childcare? This book is evidence based so may help you make your informed choice .

Our understanding of human physiology and biology has moved on a lot in the last 20+ years so what was considered a 'good thing' in the past we know know goes against what human infants bodies expect.

Clocks are an artificial invention (they don't exist in nature) so why would humans be better when ruled by them?

Keeping baby close to you, feeding when baby asks you (not cries as that is a late hunger sign) and being responsive to their needs is better for their growth and behavioural development than spending your life waking baby or shushing them as they cry as the clock isn't telling the right time.....

Er just a thought but when do u eat?

The simple answer is u make yourself something as and when u are hungry. Key being when u feel thirsty, peckish or screaming hungry. Same goes for baby. Not every feed is a full on feed - baby might have dry mouth one sec but ravenous 15mins later.

See how it goes is basically my advice.....I wouldn't prescribe either method as best exactly.

Oh my! My DD gets absolutely hysterical if not fed AT LEAST every 2 hours, and seriously grumpy from about 1.5 hours....

Hmmm.....I had a baby 20 years ago, and have one now.
I found it heart wrenching trying to feed him to a timetable, and fed him whenever he cried, was too shattered to watch the clock. I did think I was doing the wrong thing since I went against all advice I was given back then, but was too lazy and weak ti work ti a timetable.
I now feed whenever I can, even just to make my life easier. Believe me it is a lot easier than trying to get the baby into a timetable. I remember alot of frazzled mums back then, all trying to do the 20 minutes each side to a timetable, no-one really managing it so using formula instead because they thought they didn't have enough milk.

me2002 Congrats on your pregnancy :)

To try to answer your question:

If you try to breastfeed on a 4 hourly schedule you will almost certainly find that "you don't have enough milk".

It was a common "problem" for mums back in the days when this was common advice. Amazing really, that suddenly mums couldn't make enough milk as humans had managed pretty well up to that point :)

In some cultures newborn babies are fed every 15 minutes. Really. Essentially they are carried in a sling and pretty much help themselves.

That doesn't mean you have to do that :) But human babies are designed to kind of drip-feed, to snack, to take in tiny amounts of milk into their literally marble-sized tummies and mothers are made to produce milk little and often. By making your baby wait for 4 hours your body will think it doesn't need to make so much milk as it's not being taken out. It's made on a supply and demand basis.

If you plan to formula feed then there won't be the same biological reasons to feed on demand from a milk supply POV. But, your baby will really be unhappy when s/he needs to eat and is not able to and her biological need to be fed on request won't go away. She will suffer from being hungry and while she may not remember that as an adult, it won't stop it being horrible for her as a baby. So it depends on your definition of "it didn't do you any harm" :)

Not to mention you'll have to deal with an upset (read: screaming to high heaven) baby when you could Just Feed Her.

I suppose, to turn the question on its head, why would you want to feed every 4 hours? If it meant that to do so you'd have a happy baby between regular scheduled feeds then I can see the benefit, but as you say you'd been distracted when you were hungry which takes an awful lot of mummy time and effort for no benefit :)

Babies need to be close to their caregiver (physically) and they need food. That's pretty much it :)

Oh and with regards to sleeping through the night, 4 hourly feeds make this less likely because he'll not be getting sufficient calories during the day. Furthermore it's not ideal for babies to be sleeping through at such an early age. Lighter sleep, and more frequent waking, while tough on parents, is normal for babies. Between 0-6 months a baby's body is not able to rouse itself well if there is a breathing problem (apnea episode) which can in rare cases lead, tragically, to SIDS because the baby isn't able to naturally wake from a deeper sleep to then start to breath again.

While this is hard to consider (and bear in mind that SIDS, while terrifying, is very rare) it is something that's important to understand. When we artificially try to make our young babies sleep longer and more deeply than they naturally would, eg by filling them up with formula or EBM from a bottle as a last evening feed, we are potentially messing around with this natural protective mechanism. I know you're not suggesting this, but it often follows from attempting to artificially set feed times.

Some babies do sleep through the night from a very young age, quite naturally. It is quite probable that these babies are just physically ready to do so. Others don't sleep well at all for months or years. Luck of the draw I'm afraid :)

Every baby is different. I did demand BF with both mine.

DD would demand every two hours during the day (4/5hrs at night). DS has been demanding every 4hrs since he was born and if I try to offer any earlier, he arches away and tries to leap off me (now 5 months).

I was fully prepared for DDs feeding pattern (thanks to MN!). But DS and 4hourly surprised me.

You may find your baby is like DD or DS. Best to go with the flow. That way you don't set your self up for unrealistic expectations. I found feeding on demand easy. There is no way I would have listened to either of them cry to "stretch" out time for the next feed. Would have been awful.

Good luck with your baby.

Before I had DD I was convinced I would feed every four hours, put her down for a nap when the book (yes, she who must not be named!) told me to etc.

I snootily looked down on friends who demand breasted their babies frequently and asked them how on earth they could possibly cope without a routine.

We had slightly different circumstances in that DD was prem so we had a hard start to BFing, and our main aim for months was to ensure she put on weight, and to make her feel loved to undo the six weeks she spent alone in an incubator

But bottom line is I went against everything I thought, I let her sleep when she wanted to, fed her when she 'asked' etc. and actually I think that suited me just fine. I didn't have to be home at certain times so she could nap in her cot, for example. I had a lovely social life and she slept on me or in the buggy and fed when she felt like it.

So what I'm trying to say is just wait and see. Feed frequently in the early days otherwise you will have supply problems, but just see whether a routine of some kind suits you and your baby and go with what feels right for you and for this specific baby (all babies are different)

I agree with you in theory me; I was the same, I was a very small and premature twin and spent six weeks in hospital before coming home, but was well established on a formula-fed four hour routine by then. Which was the norm back in the early eighties. I asked my Mum about it and she said she presumed the MWs just let us cry between the feeds until the routine became established (she used to get taken to us for feeds). So it can be done, but whether it should with very small babies is another matter. Definitely not before 6 weeks I would say, and you absolutely need to demand feed for a fair while if you are breastfeeding.
My son is 6 weeks old now and formula fed, he naturally slipped into a 3 hour routine when he was a week or so old but it went out of the window with growth spurts and we are just getting back to a routine now. When you know your baby better you will be able to tell when they are genuinely hungry, whether they have fallen into the habit of snacking and need to be encouraged to wait longer between feeds so they eat more when it is time. After 6 weeks think about this stuff, just go with what your baby needs until then.

Sorry StickyGhostofXmasPast I have to just say that the phrase, "fallen into the habit of snacking and need to be encouraged to wait longer between feeds so they eat more when it is time" is absolutely not appropriate for a breastfed baby. It's arguable whether it's appropriate for a formula fed baby as "snacking" is biologically normal and the way babies are supposed to feed.

Certainly for a BF baby trying to make them wait longer between feeds can be a way to scupper breastfeeding completely as it is likely to lead to lowered milk supply and low weight gain.

There is just no reason to make a baby wait for its food. Babies have tiny tummies and they process milk quickly. "Distracting" them from their hunger is unfair, not to mention a waste of energy when a feed will just give them what they need!

My son is 6 weeks and it is so much easier to just feed him. Whenever he wakes up or whimpers I offer the boob as first port of call and he almost always goes for it. I've got loads of milk as a result and because of that he feeds very quickly anyway. He sleeps about 11pm to 3pm then awake to feed then back to sleep till about 7am, which I think is not bad at all.

Far better to just sit and feed him (while MNing) than try and let him scream till 4hrs is up!!!

organic, I agree it makes perfect sense that a baby will eat little and often but, going on my own experience with my DS, yes there is such a thing as 'snacking' - he got into the habit of eating a small amount 2 hourly so he was never hungry enough to take a full feed and was tired all the time because he never had a proper sleep. Talking about a formula fed baby not breastfed, and he is over 6 weeks and a healthy weight. It was quite clear that he wasn't really hungry as soon as this after his last feed and by encouraging him to go longer he eats more in one go and has the time for a decent sleep. I agree that with breastfed babies it's a different matter, but I guess we have to agree to disagree a bit because it worked very well for us applying this.

Bumps that is exactly the same as my DS, I'm going to make up the bottle right now for 11pm! I think even without interference some babies do sort of space out their own feeds.

I think it is very different with bf/ff babies. Formula is harder to digest therefore a ff baby is less likely to want more, surely?

My nearly 18 month old ds is breastfed and I don't offer, don't refuse. This means some days he has a feed in the morning and before bed and others he is coming to me whenever he fancies it! This week he has a cold and is feeling sad and dehydrated so needs to connect with me more often. I just think he's still little, he still needs me and that's a good thing! It won't be forever!

I always think if I could only have some food / drinks every 4 hours I would survive... But I might not like it. Imagine being thirsty and having to wait 2 more hours! That is why I feed my baby on demand.

I agree with organic.

Common 70s bf problems (that I've heard from women of my mum's generation anyway)

"I didnt have enough milk" - could it be that strict four-hourly feeds wasn't enough to keep up a robust supply?

"My milk wasn't nutritious enough/was too watery" - Could it be that the baby didn't put on enough weight with these strict four-hourly feeds/was too "fussy" fed that irregularly, but the breast milk was blamed?

All babies are different and for some routines seem to suit them (does the baby suit the routine, or does the routine suit the baby?). Others prefer to be fed more frequently.

Some mothers like a routine and are very motivated to get their baby settled in one. Others like to be more flexible. Others still don't mind spending long periods of time feeding and cuddling.

I do think it's possible to be a fixed-routine-preference mother with a baby that doesn't agree and that's a recipe for problems, but mostly babies and mothers will come to some sort of pattern that suits both. Compromise and not having huge expectations antenatally is a good idea

Also, in the 70s formula was caesin (sp) based which sits for far longer in the stomach (it's sold now as "hungry baby" milk). Many ff babies now, fed on whey-based first milks, also don't go 4 hours between feeds.

My DS1 EBF every 2 hours for nearly 5 months.

Was he snacking?
Was he using me for comfort?
Was he a hungry baby?
Was I mis-reading his cries?
Was I over feeding?

I don't know and, tbh, now I don't care. He was offered boob when I thought he might need it or not.

He was and is a happy 5 year old, knowing that I am there for him at any time day or night. He is perfectly in proportion weight and height wise - always has been. Sleepless nights and tired days go with the teritory of having a baby. It's not forever.

My DS2 is FF, fed every 4 hours-ish. But sometimes he is thirsty, or wants a top up, or finds a bottle comforting soo can have a drink (not a full bottle) hourly at times.

Until you have your baby, and until you are in a routine - which will take about 4 months - you don't know how you or your baby will be.

Imo, making a baby wait 4 hours for a feed as it's inconvenient for you is cruel, unnecessary and not what being a mother of a baby is about.

Babies have little tums so need feeding little and often. Hard cheese if you were thinking a baby will fit in with your 9 hour sleep cycle - it doesn't happen.

Happy babies = Happy Mums.

If baby wants to be fed every 2 hours, feed every 2 hours - it's normal for a small baby.

And good luck!!

I'm with you bumpsadasie why refuse the breast and sit placating a crying baby when it's so easy to just stick them on the boob!

I found that boob was the cure for everything with DD when she was teeny. If she was hungry or thirsty, it fed her/ quenched her thirst. If she wanted cuddles or comfort it provided that. And if she was sleepy she fell asleep on the breast. Boobs are a fabulous invention!!

""I didnt have enough milk" - could it be that strict four-hourly feeds wasn't enough to keep up a robust supply?

"My milk wasn't nutritious enough/was too watery" - Could it be that the baby didn't put on enough weight with these strict four-hourly feeds/was too "fussy" fed that irregularly, but the breast milk was blamed?"

suzikettles yes to both - now shown to be exactly what went wrong :(

boysboys "Happy babies = Happy Mums." I was about to (hopefully uncharacteristically) jump down your throat for a phrase that is inaccurate, awfully unhelpful and basically a load of crap which causes no end of confusion and problems. Then I read it again and realised you'd reversed it.... I love it!!

Still not necessarily true of course, but a much better way round, anyway

I can only offer my perspective based on my own experiences breastfeeding my DD. You do not say of you were breastfed or formula fed, or what you plan to do.

Every baby is different as other have said. Some breastfed babies will feed hourly, others 2 hourly, others 3 hourly...others will have no pattern at all!

From approx 6 weeks onwards my DD fed every 2-2.5 hours for 30 minutes. This was totally manageable - I did not try to schedule feeds, but found that after a while a pattern developed and I could plan my day around my DD's feeds. I was always out and about...out for lunch, shopping, walking etc Feeding my DD on demand did not stop me from doing any of those things.

I agree that breastfed babies do not snack - they need small amounts of milk often because breastmilk is digested far quicker than formula. Feeding every 2 hours is not unusual or particularly frequent in my experience. Of course a baby who is fed frequently will take less than a baby who is fed every 4 hours - the baby made to wait 4 hours is likely to be very hungry. There is no "normal" time for a baby to feed and no definition (I don't think!) of what a full feed is. A full feed in my opinion is when my babies tummy is full enough for her to be satisfied - babies can just be thirsty and may only feed for a couple of minutes for their thirst to be quenched.

There is a lot of research which supports the argument for feeding your baby on demand. It is believed that feeding our babies on demand can reduce the likelyhood of he/she being obese in later life.

If your baby is breastfed, spacing out feeds is likely to affect your supply. I recently read that women who schedule breastfeeds have an unusually high rate of milk supply failure around 3-4 months, resulting in them having to supplement with formula.

Aside from research and issues with supply etc, I just hated that thought of my little girl crying because she was hungry. If I am hungry, I eat. If I am thirsty, I drink. Why should it be any different for babies? I very rarely go 4 hours without a drink. Agree with the others that making a baby wait for food or drink is unfair...and as someone else said, just not worth the hassle when a feed is all that is needed to make your baby happy and content.

Oh by the time Id written my mega post there had been loads more replies!!!!