worried....is this ok?

[MummySSB]

hi, im really worried about my 3.5week old son and would really appreciate some advice or if someone can let me know if this is ok (im a first time mum, so everything seems scary)
he is EBF and is feeding fairly regularly, although not going very long between feeds. the mornings are better, he manages 2 to 2.5hours between feed at 9ish and then at 11something but then it goes downhill, afternnons/evenings are very random feeding sessions...

ive just finished a big 40min feed and he fell asleep - really deeply, tried to wind him for cpl of mins but nothing so put him down to sleep, he then wakes himself up and i wait/watch thinking he'll fall back asleep, but he brings up a big mouthful of milk and it also comes out of his nose....obv this frightens me as im worried about him choking on it...is this something i should see a doctor about?
he then splutters and is totally awake by then, and straining for a bowel movement - hes not constipated, his poos are runny but he does have quite a bit of gas....again, why does he struggle to go? it looks like he really strains...
the next problem is - how to get him off to sleep again? he is really tired, but cant fall asleep without being on t boob - have tried dummy, as hes bringing stuff up, i thought he cant be hungry...? he doesnt like t dummy so ive put him back on t boob, and he fell asleep but now i cant move him off without waking him...and the cycle starts again.
i really want to get him on a proper routine...so we both have some structure to our day, but when / how do i start introducing a bit more structure?

its been happening for a cpl of days and he basically doesnt get any decent sleep during the day - which is stressing me out...along with how hes bringing up milk through his nose....

really sorry for the long post, but im just desperate for some advice on this....

Sorry Mummy haven't got time to reply in full but didn't want your message to go unanswered.

I think you should call one of the Bfing Helplines or a local BFC today and talk this through.

Well, regarding structure this is a bit of a misnomer. I was petrified at first and got quite het up about getting a routine sorted out as literally everyone kept asking if our routine was ok and I didn't have one. Then at about 8wks I realised that we were venturing out at similar times most days for a walk. We had also joined a baby group or two via our Childrens Centre (Local Gov things, look them up as they are free) and visiting grandparents and picking up groceries, sleeping/feeding and waking times were all happening at roughly the same points each day and night and I realised that in fact we did have a routine to our days and weeks. I just hadn't noticed as I was expecting to have a schedule, almost like I was at work.

Your schedule/routine, I prefer habits, will develop on their own as you listen to your baby and fit those needs around things that need to be done for the house, family, your sanity. Don't read a book unless you like being told you are wrong....!

Presently this all sounds relatively normal. Theres a growth spurt around 2wks, 4wks and er 6or 8 wks. You could be in one of those as my dd just sucked for england at those points. Each time I got distressed and then sort of realised it wasn't worth it, relaxed and it disappeared again. It was always worse in the pm/early evenings. Boobs are about drinks, eating, snacks, comfort, warmth. One minute they want a mouthful, the next a full on 6course dinner. Try not to associate in your mind a feed is all it is as this will develop over time. He's still very small right now. Oh and my dd never went longer than an hour without a drink/snack/dinner at this age so I doubt your little one is doing anything 'wrong' its just his preference right now, it will change.

My dd never brought milk up through her nose, but that means nothing. It doesn't sound not normal if that makes sense. Could be reflux perhaps, could just be the angle he's at? His tummy is very young the straining probably looks worse than it is. Everything looks weird at this stage. Just as you get a handle on this one, he will change what he's doing and you will be behind the curve again.... If you are in any doubt visit a GP, its always worth it if you are very worried.

My DD still falls asleep on my lap. I found waiting about 20-30mins started working at around 6mths before moving her. Before that it was luck every time. At 3wks I just sat there. You can't regret a cuddle. Plenty of time to be in a cot. Get an iPhone, helps pass the time.....

Sorry, getting all misty eyed at remembering this stage! Stressed the hell out of me at the time but is lovely. Am quite jealous.....

Expect to see TikTok along soon, her advice is always good.....

Bringing up milk through the nose is normal for some babies, (Ds did it until he was about 3 months - none of my others did, so I was terrified it was something sinister)
I think it's due to things not being fully developed, but it's not a problem.
As for feeding and sleeping, it all sounds normal. Could you try feeding lying down, so when he goes to sleep, you can back away without disturbing him.
IME, trying to introduce a routine at this stage (and he is still at the weeny baby stage) is soul destroying and pointless.

Hi Mummy- if I had any advice for u, it would be to... Relax! Your baby will lead u for now, trust him!! Follow the path of least resistance at this young age and things will get easier by themselves- you have months and years for routine, and trying to establish one now, will fail, as something always messes it up eg. Teeth, cold- anything!!! Might be worth getting him checked for reflux tho, and also making sure he's not lying flat by propping the mattress with a folded towel can help. Some babies sleep in their bouncer if reflux is really bad!! Apart from that, it all sounds about right for the age he's at!! Well done- sounds like you're doing great!! Oh, and let him sleep on you/ try a sling if that would help x

Thanks for the replies ladies - makes a big difference to know that there is nothing untoward going on, or that i'm not missing something.
Im finding it hard to know if I'm doing the right things - like, giving him the dummy, as you read/hear so many 'negative' things about them...or indeed about putting them on some kind of routine from birth...its a struggle to get him to go 2.5hours between feeds, and when he's so young - I can't do much but give in after a while!
Its really helpful to hear that things may just fit into some kind of pattern on their own and that maybe i'm putting too much pressure on myself, and expecting too much from my poor baby...but gives me some hope that maybe some time soon, I'll have more of a life back and in the meantime, I'm not giving him bad habits - like feeding him to sleep, and then holding him so he can get a good rest...ppl have told me that i might be creating a bad habit with that, but its so frustrating to keep putting him down and then he wakes up and after a few times of that, he is clearly over-tired. Its been overwhelming and I just need to know that going with the flow is the right thing to do in terms of his feeding/sleeping.
As for the spitting up, and milk coming out through his nose, i'm going to keep an eye on that for a day or so, and maybe put a towel under his mattress in the moses basket, and if it continues, I might get it checked out by the GP...it doesnt seem to bother him as much as it bothers me...which is seemingly the case for most things.

Jilted - I have visited the BF group a couple of weeks back, and had a BF lead come home to check things - and they said the latch was fine, and as he has put on a bit of weight, and has regular dirty nappies - they didnt think anything to worry about when I spoke to them again the other day. Was there anything else that you would suggest I speak to them about specifically?

Thanks again ladies...means alot, and gives me much reassurance x

Hi, just wanted to add that feeding on demand is the key!! 2 hrly or even more frequently would be normal/ essential for a baby his age, to ensure adequate milk supply.

All sounds completely normal to me.

DS is 13wo and when lying on his back asleep would vomit through his nose. He's stopped doing it now actually, probably stopped a few weeks ago. DD did it too.

With ds I have to wind him halfway through a feed or he won't settle properly after the second half. He's also v windy at the other end and will squirm for a few minutes before doing a v explosive nappy.

He's so much better now than in the early days. It changes v quickly indeed.

Sorry for posting and running Mummy, should know better at my age .

Its great that a Bfing Leader has seen you feed and everything is ok, great news about the weight gain too.

BFCs aren't just for latch and weight gain though, what I was really trying to say was that a BFC might have some more information to help you with the sick through the nose issue and also with the concerns you have about feeding to sleep and routine. There is a thread on milk coming from noses here.

As others have said, you aren't making a rod for your own back. You are responding to you baby's needs which is a very good thing to do, so please don't worry about it. If you are having trouble putting him down do you think he would settle for you in a sling?

Agree with the others too, both of mine sort of fell into their own routine, naturally when they were a little older than your LO. It's not much of an issue if you don't have much of a structure really. FFers need to be in more of a routine because if they are going out, they need to know how many bottles to take, whereas you can go out for as long or as little as you wish.

Glad you got along to a Bfing Support group, is there one that you can go along to each week? They really are good, even if its just for having a cuppa, talking to the other Mums and realising that what you are experiencing is all perfectly normal . There are some groups listed here.

As for the evenings, again a change in feeding pattern in the evening is normal, there is some info here and some info here to help reassure you that you are doing a great job .

Show - thanks for your msg, good to know that someone else has been through this and got through it and it's all ok! Really makes me feel much better!

Jilted - thanks for the links!
I've ordered a sling so hopefully that might work...and might go along to t groups just for a bit of a chat as u suggested - the other thing that's getting to me is being indoors and day/night sort of blurs into one!!

Please try to get out and about. I always find that a baby is nowhere near as demanding when out than if at home with you . It gives u a much needed break from feeding if nothing else! In those early days I stayed in, partly because I have 3 other kids and had so much to do, but when dh came home in the evening, he took my ds out for a walk after tea, which allowed me to vegetate on sofa catch up on much needed housework x

What sling did you order?

Milk through nose - totally normal. Absolutely fine - relax about that. Little babies very frequently bring up milk and sometimes it will come down the nose. Not nice for either of you but fine.

Why bother trying to get him to wait for 2 1/2 hours? He needs little and often into his tiny tummy, and this will get your breasts making lots more yummy milk for him as a bonus. Feed him, feed him, feed him, cuddle him, let him sleep on you if that's the best way he sleeps and snuggle up and sleep yourself if you can.

You won't get your life back sweetie :) Not the way you had it before, anyway. It will always be different.

"?Making the decision to have a child is momentous. It is to decide forever to have your heart go walking around outside your body.? - Elizabeth Stone

BUT it will soon be nothing like it is now. You will get past this confusion, fog, tiredness and worry about every thing that you don't know is a big thing or a small thing. You will soon know what to do when he's sick, when he falls over, what his cries mean, what his signs mean. You will look back on these first weeks and months and realise how much you've learnt and how much of an amazing mother you've grown into and you will wish that you could go back and hug yourself, and tell yourself, "see? it was all ok". Your life will never be as it was, but it will soon be much more normal than it is now. Normal will just be different :) And normal will be good.

Try to do your best to enjoy him as he is and go with what you feel is right, not what other people tell you (including me). Try to learn from how he lives in the moment and how he couldn't care less about the washing up or vacuuming. Of course, he also doesn't care whether you need the loo, a shower or a night out with your friends. He just needs YOU and that's really hard so get help if you can. But he won't need you forever and he won't be this intense for long. This newborn phase is so fast and there's no such thing as a rod for your own back.

Come back and keep posting :)

Organic- nearly cried reading that!! So lovely and sooo right!!

Sorry Mampig and :)

It all sounds totally normal to me. Most tiny babies don't let you put them down and if they got their ideal would like to be carried about with mouth near boob so they could pop on and off every so often ! They were part of your body so recently ...

The best way to deal with it is to adjust your expectations. Expect him to want to feed all the time, then when he sleeps a bit it's a bonus. If he feeds a lot, well this is great as you will have a healthy supply and BF successfully.

It's really hard with your first as you don't have the experience to know that it does change. Your dS will be so different even in 2 months time. He wil be interested in the world around him and he won't want to be attached to you 24/7. They literally just grow out of it.

As for bad habits, don't worry ! Plenty of time for structure when he's older.

Lots of good advice here. If you can get really comfy in the place where you feed, with drinks and snacks and a book and the tv and a phone/laptop then feeding can become a relaxing and fun part of your day. Your baby will likely feed more quickly in a few weeks.

I agree that it's a great idea to get out even if it's just to the supermarket or the park. Babies like looking at new things and it's often easier for a baby to get to sleep on the move too.

Congratulations and good luck!

thanks for the lovely words Organic....really sweet, and so true!

I do realise that my life will be different from now on....and of course the new normal will be good, its just quite overwhelming right now...such a big shock to the system and its so easy to start doubting things im doing (or not doing)...so it really has helped to hear that all this is normal at this stage...and knowing it will pass, but then on the other hand i want to pause time and hold my baby like this always! such a crazy amount of emotion...its all so overwhelming...and no amount of reading prepared me for this rollercoaster...

Mampig/Bumpsadaise/Flamegirl - DS will love going out, he is already really alert, and loves looking out of the window - its been a bit tricky for me though, as had a c-section...and then managed to pull a muscle or something in my back, so its been really painful to walk! but im going to start venturing out now that its getting a bit easier to walk (obv cant drive just yet)...

i know you all have said that its ok to carry the baby once he falls asleep...last night, i slept on the couch with him on my chest, i was propped up with loads of cushions so wasnt totally flat, and we both had a really decent nights sleep! but will he get used to sleeping like that, and then not sleep in the moses basket? as i said he does wake up as soon as ive tried to put him in there...i totally dont mind sleeping with him, but also dont want to encourage it...iyswim.

thanks again ladies, your replies really have helped keep me focussed and know that im not doing anything 'wrong' makes me feel so much better...

If you can, I would read up on safe co-sleeping, and the position that u lie down and feed is very safe if done properly. I can't remember the link, but there is plenty of info online x

MummySSB glad you are getting help and support from mumsnet :)

Please do check out the safety guidance - you can find plenty of links if you go here: www.cosleeping.org

You'll see it's not good to co-sleep on a sofa/couch - this has well-documented risks, and babies are much safer in bed with their mothers.

Your baby will sleep alone when he is developmentally ready to do so. Just as he wears nappies now, and you don't worry that he will always wear them, just as he does not speak now, and you don't worry he's never going to talk :), he needs to be close to you at the moment because he is a tiny baby and gets so much reassurance and love that way :)

...been reading various things over t last few days, and wondering whether this could be reflux??

ive tried to keep an eye on his bringing up milk, its usually a big mouthful (sometimes thru his nose too), followed by a bit of a cough, its not projectile vomit, but literally a mouthful of milk just falls out suddenly....hes fine otherwise, nappies etc and also generally doesnt seem too bothered. he does have hiccups after a big feed.
Today ive been noticing that he does seem more comfy when hes feeding at a upward angle rather than flat....and that might explain why he sleeps best at night on my chest when im propped up as i mentioned before...

thoughts on this would be really appreciated....

Well, when ds1 had reflux it was projectile and lots of it. I literally wore waterproofs and covered as much of the area in front of him with a bath towel. That was until we got medical help, which I had to push for as I got fobbed off a lot with being a first time mum (the "all babies spit up" line...). It was only when the HV actually saw it for herself (or rather got covered in it) that she believed me!! There's also a "silent reflux" where the milk doesn't settle as well as it should, tho not projectile, but can cause discomfort in baby following a feed- maybe this is the case here?? A trip to a nice gp might do no harm??