4 wk old, aching nipples that turn white when bf

[GeoBraMum]

My DD is 4 weeks old and breastfeeding hasnt been very easy. I did have very sore cracked nipples in the early days but they healed with the help of nipple shields. DD now cluster feeds a lot in the evenings, and sometimes during the day as well. My nipples are really sore and turn white from all the sucking.
I'm worried that she is not getting enough food in the evenings, that I'm not doing it right and that I've been doing it wrong all along! Starting to feel a bit sad about it. Wondering if I can correct an incorrect latch 4 weeks on?? If that is the problem. :(

Yes you can correct latch - if you use an exaggerated latch technique - have a google as I can't explain well!

Do your nips come ourt looking a bit flat? Does she click when feeding? Might be worth checking for tongue tie again as thus can have an impact.

The cluster feeding sounds normal. It's not just for food, it's comfort too and tired babies need a bit more to get to sleep. Plus it's good for your milk supply too.

Has she been checked for tongue tie?
A BFC would probably be the best person to check, as dr's can be dismissive of it.

Ds had a TT. My nipples would end up lipstick shaped and white, and feeding was very uncomfortable. Everything was fine after he had it clipped.

Yes, they do come out looking lipstick shaped and there is clicking as well when she feeds. Thats so good to know. I think the midwife checked for tongue tie in the early days but I'll get it checked again. The community nurse mentioned something about a heart-shaped tongue but didnt make much of it. I must get to a BFC.
Thank you so much

Think it might be a vasospasm caused by poor latch. I had this but was helped by a LC and had no more problems

My DS had tongue tie and I also had vasospasm. According to my LLL counsellor it is very common for the 2 to go together.

We went down to Southampton to see Mervyn Griffiths at the hospital there for the tongue tie and feeding improved enormously after that. The vasospasm remains though, and DS is 3 months now. It's not really a problem without the pain of the tongue tie - I deal with it by placing the warm palm of my hand over my nipple for a few moments after DS has finished on that side.

I had this - turned out that baby did not have a deep enough latch and was basically cutting off the circulation. I was also in agony (yes I know but i do not exaggerate!) and on the verge of giving up loads of times but once I got the latch right it was plain sailing until she turned 17 mths!
Get to the bottom of it and persevere :)

Hmm, highly indicative of tongue tie, OP. Mervyn Griffiths is very highly thought of but if he's not in your area then there are plenty of others who can help. Where in the country are you?

TT is a specialist area, OP, and your midwife may or may not be able to detect it or know what to do. Your local hospital might have a TT clinic (some do). Your BFC (a properly qualified one) may have the experience of knowing what to look for, but might not - you need to ask really.

You might find this interesting:

www.ann-dobson.co.uk/tongue-tie_symptoms.html

The good news is that there are plenty of people around who CAN help, you just need to find them. (Speaking from personal and painful experience). Also the good news is that if it's TT it can be very significantly improved or even completely "fixed" by treatment. However time is of the essence, partly because of your pain and partly because for some mums milk supply can be compromised by a TT.

Sounds like Tongue tie, I'm just after having my dc4 go through the frenulotomy as I was experiencing the same problems as you, I saw 3 different midwives, the health visitor 2 doctors and eventually a paediatrician, they were all very dismissive and the paediatrician told me it was only a slight Tongue tie so the nhs would not deal with it, by the time my son was 3 weeks old I couldn't take any more, my nipples were split in half, he couldn't latch on, I dreaded feeding him and he had bad colic due to not latching on properly, I decided to go private and at the consultation it was discovered that he was 100% Tongue tied, once he was snipped all the problems disappeared!!!

It could be tongue tie, but might just be basic positioning and attachment too. Lipstick-shaped nipples and blanching can be caused by either. Sometimes a tiny tweak to how you are bringing your baby onto the breast or holding them can make a huge difference . There's no need to rush straight off to pay for an expensive lactation consultant. Have a hunt round in your area first to see if there are any bf support groups of an LLL/ABM/ BfN/NCT trained person who can observe a feed either at a group or by visiting you at home.

Some of the videos on this site might help you to work out how to make adjustments yourself too. I know lots of people who have dramatically improved their baby's feeding at 4 weeks or later once they got some skilled help .

Went to see excellent BFnurse today who confirmed posterior tongue tie & has made a referral for it to be dealt with. Delighted to have it some way sorted out. Is my DD suffering in the meantime with feeding difficulties??
Im concentrating a lot on positioning and latch in meantime.
That ann dobson website describes our symptoms to a T!
Thanks for all the advice

Great! Referral should be an emergency one within a few days so keep on top of it.

No, she's not suffering. Just keep going the best you can and hopefully it will be snipped and better soon. As you say, focusing on the latch and getting the deepest latch you can might help. The Flipple technique is worth looking into, and sometimes rugby hold can get a deeper latch.

Watch your baby's nappies too. What affects the baby is the amount of milk transfer. Some babies don't get enough milk with TT. If there are concerns then at this stage hand expressing can be v effective. Babies this youn only need v small amounts, so if it is necessary it can either be done as drips into baby's mouth, or given by asmall cup (so as to avoid the added complication of teats). How much poo is your baby doing, how often and what colour?

It's great to have picked this up so early, because it means you can take action before any bigger problems arise . I hope you are finding ways to feed that are more comfortable for you.

Opps sorry, wrong thread . I thought your baby was 4 days not 4 weeks.

Heart-shaped tongue is characteristic of TT and unlikely to be caused by P&A issues. So irritating

Glad you got a referral and I hope you can get it snipped quickly. If they don't give you any exercises to do afterwards, PM me (or I'm sure organiccarrotcake would be able to help). Particularly for a posterior tie, it's important to keep the tongue moving after the snip.

[Not a trained expert, but have spent the last 6.5 months dealing with PTT, including two snips, and learned a lot from the lovely Ann Dobson]

Also, you might want to look into having a couple of sessions with a cranial osteopath who specialises in babies. I can recommend one in London/Aylesbury or otherwise you could post asking for recs on The Analytical Armadillo's FB page. In fact, The Analytical Armadillo's blog and related Milk Matters website have useful info on TT if you want to know more.

Sorry (bad morning, clearly!), meant to say so irritating that the community nurse saw the hearting tongue but didn't think anything of it.