5 mths, do you think a bottle of formula will help night waking? Am exhausted so advice really needed!

[YorkshireTeaGold]

Hi all - would really appreciate anyones views / experience...

My EBF DD is nearly 5 mths old and she feeds every 3 hours at night. She wakes and cries and doesn't settle unless fed - it's starting to affect everything, as I'm so shattered and really need a decent nights sleep. Without going into all the boring details at 3 months she was only waking once a night and I was feeling so positive about everything. However since having a tummy bug (which lasted ages but now cleared) she wakes 3 times at least. The cumulative effect of this is that I'm shaky and not myself at all, really starting to take its toll on DH as well and I worry about him as his work involves lots of driving.

Basically I wondered if I introduce a bottle of formula when she wakes for her 10pm feed would make her sleep better? Has anyone done this with any success? I was planning on EBF until she was 6 months and then introducing bottles so guess it won't make any great difference if I do this now but I feel so guilty for introducing a FF / stopping BFing at all. I feel really conflicted about it as part of me loves it for the closeness and nurturing. But I now really want my body back, to go on a proper diet and have more than one glass of wine.

Anyhoo - anyone introduced a formula dream feed and had better sleep or am I on the wrong track?!

Thanks lots!

Yes you can give a bottle at 10pm but sadly it won't garantee she sleeps any longer. Also adding formula through the night will affect your supply and is ulitmately the road to pure ff.
If I were you I would gradually convert to ff and not give it another thought. You've done amazingly well but it is now making you feel ill so change things now before you get more run down.

As for the closeness factor. I know that is very hard to give up. And maybe you'll be able to keep up a couple of bf a day?
You know about the 4mth sleep regression phase right? Mine did it at 4mths and both didn't sleep through consistently till 9mths.

What sort times is she waking/feeding through the day?

Hi there! The short answer is it will make no difference. Well, that's my experience anyway. My ds is same age and waking every 2 hrs, for feeds, and also ebf. Ive tried bm bottles and on one occasion ff bottle- made no difference. Your ds could be having a sleep regression, associated with 4 month growth spurt. Lots of people will tell u it will pass. I'm in the middle of it too, so I'm really hoping it will!! There are many reasons you want to ebf, and are reluctant to try formula- same as me, but in an emergency one night my ds had to have formula. One bottle didn't make a difference, but I was away longer than I imagined and he had a second one. He did sleep for longer after that one, but I think it was coincidence tbh. It's your baby, if you want to try it, you can! If it answers your question once and for all, maybe that's worth it? Only you can decide, go with your gut on this one, because it's the only way you can pacify yourself. Many others here will give you plenty of expert advice, and it's well worth reading all, and making an informed decision. Really hope you start to feel better soon. Btw, do you/ can you co-sleep? It's a real life-saver for me!!

If you don't mind me asking, was there a specific reasion why you where planning on introducing bottle's at 6months. ie a return to work?
It is a pain for formula feed with the added hastle of washing/making up bottle's and the added cost. If you can carry of BF then it's well worth it both for your health and that of your baby's.

Unfortunatly there is no eveidance to support the idea that formula make's baby's sleep any better. In fact on average the BF mom gets an extra 20minutes of sleep a night.

I suppose if you introduce a bottle you could go to bed earlier and get you OH to give the bottle therefore you'd get a bit more sleep.

Oh yes and if your willing to try co-sleeping it really does make a hugge differences to how you feel during the day. I didn't with DD and really wish I had we are with DS and it is so much easier, plus I couldn't nap when he did as had a toddler to look after to.

thanks for kind response bumbums... yes, do know about the 4mth sleep regression and perhaps this could be a factor as she started to faff about during daytime feeds so she maybe trying to get her food at night. As such (to answer LovesBloominChristmas) I try and feed her 3 hourly during the day (7/10/1/4/bedtime) and get her to take as much milk as possible so she gets her calories then. Doesn't seem to be working though!

Just thought that if I started one ff now at 10ish I could really fill her up then she a) wouldn't wake as much or b) I'd be more confident in trying to get her off in the night as I knew she wasn't really hungry.

Ohh - thanks lots for responses! Mampig - you're right in that I can try it and see if it works and I don't have to make a decision either way yet, hadn't thought of it like that!

I'm not too keen on co sleeping as when she was in our room (is now in her own room next door) I woke up every time she peeped and she woke up when DHs alarm went early and wouldn't go back down. So although I can see it can be a good thing it didn't work for us and resulted in less sleep rather than more!

MigGril, I want to stop BFing at 6 months as I want my body back (and I'm going back to work at 9 mths)... know it sounds selfish but I really miss sharing a bottle of wine with friends and being able to control my weight. In my head I think I've done my bit... however sure in my heart I'll hate stopping so not sure what I'll do.

You know you can drink with bf? I just polished off a bottle with DH for supper tonight. Going to dream feed DD now . Are you struggling with weight? Or just you don't want to feel like a milk machine anymore?

As for the stats. I can believe it easily. They are comparing bf and ff babies. (Not mixed feeding). You can easily spend 20min more just going downstairs and make a bottle. Also from my very small circle of mums, bf babies feed a lot faster. How many can do a bottle in 3-5 min? That's how long mine feeds. And not all bf babies not sleep through. Mine usually does, at least if you count 11-6 only. And if she doesnt it's once a night at around 4.

However, OP, whatever your decision is, you have done really well to bf to 6mo. Not many in the UK manage this. You should be proud you have given your LO the best start in life.

insertcleverusernamehere - if your baby slept thorugh from 4 week's then she probably would have anyway whearth you gave a bottle of formula or not.

From my gerenal experance of mum's who have FF or BF or mixed then baby's really either sleep or don't it really has nothing to do with how they are fed. solids make's no difference either.

There is some intersting reading hear. One study showed that over 84% of six month olds where not sleeping through the night.
www.kellymom.com/parenting/sleep/sleepstudies.html

As I said before the one's that do sleep are actualy the odd one's out.

And as Lilham said you can drink while BF. I also found that the weight didn't drop off untill both of mind started on solids, but I'm still BF my 13month old.

You've done a great job so far.

insertcleverusernamehere - Full details here. I saw the researcher
(Kathy Kendall Tackett) speak at a conference and even she went in to the study thinking that they would find better sleep in bottle feeding mums!

Instead she found that bf mums reported longer sleep and when they studied the type of sleep the mothers had they found that ebfing mums had nearly 3 times longer slow wave sleep* than formula feeding mums (182 minutes for ebf vs. 63 for eff). More details here.

*Slow wave sleep is the restorative/healing kind of sleep.

I would try feeding her more often in the day - my DS at 5 months was feeding 8 times in the day and that seems fairly typical, so if you're only feeding her 4 times in the day she's going to make up the rest at night.

That should be 8 times in 24 hours.

Bfing mums get more sleep due to the state of the sleep cycle adjusting with hormone production. Its really quite fascinating.
OP, I really doubt it would make much difference. I'm sorry you're feeling so tired, and do sympathise, but This Too Must Pass.
With regard to you comments about stopping at 6 months - you can drink when breastfeeding. There are conflicting studies as to exactly how much is advised, but when I researched it, general opinion seemed to be that if you felt safe feeding, it was safe to feed them.
Diet wise, you can do weight waters whilst breastfeeding. Do you have weight concerns or is it just post-baby body bothering you?
Un-mn hugs. Sleep deprivation is hard. Another suggestion of co-sleeping here - it can really be a saviour.

I dont think what's in the bottle makes a difference, but in my experience, using a bottle (either of formula or expressed milk) at the 10pm feed does make a difference, because they take more in at a feed which is being initiated by you not them, so often they're very sleepy.

I have ff/bf 4 and IME it won't make much difference. DS2 (ff) will easily take 6oz at 10pm and then wake 4hrs later for another 6oz! I appreciate that at the moment an extra hour sounds a lot but then add prep time etc into it and suddenly it's not much more than the 3hrs you're talking about!

I do agree with RealLife - getting them to take that last feed from a bottle can get them to take more. Also as Mampig says you can try it for a night and see if it makes any difference. And all those who suggested co-sleeping. I've co-slept to one degree or another with all mine and they were all out of my bed permanently by 12m.

Well done for getting so far - my ds is 20wks and in my plan he was meant to be ebf still but things don't always work out as we planned!

No reason why you can't diet while bf either. DS is 13wo and I've been exercising/eating extremely sensibly since he was born and lost nearly 2 stones. I have a few pounds left to go to reach my goal weight. DS is exclusively bf.

I think babies just sleep through when they're ready, having had FF babies who slept through from 6 and 12 weeks, a BF baby who slept through from. Irth (no exaggeration!) and a BF baby who has slept through from 7-7 some nights, but mostly wakes once or twice during that time, more during the 4 month regression.

What really helped me was cosleeping, although I did try when DD was tiny and slept less. Once she was a bit older I found that yes, maybe she did wake more in my bed, but that I slept better and felt incredibly rested by morning. DD is currently sleeping in her cot next to our bed as she kept rolling onto her front, which worried me, and though she currently only wakes once I am much more tired.

Lots of Mums at my BF group have tried a bedtime FF, not one has reported it made their baby sleep longer.

Thanks for comments - agree with RealLifeIsForWimps that it's the bottle thing that seems to make a difference rather than whether it's a FF or BF as you can get more in them IYSWIM

I'm a bit of a all-or-nothing kinda gal so was really looking forward to stopping BFing so I could go on a strict low cal no carbs after lunchtime kind of diet and work out lots... don't think this would be compatible with BFing? I'm only one dress size (ish!) off what I was so could be much worse but is depressing not having many clothes to wear, I nearly did myself an injury trying to get into pre preg skinny jeans! I was lunging across the bedroom and everything... Guess the answer would be moderation and just cutting out the crisps and choc that I've been ramming down as am so tired. Well done showofhands, that is good work and shows it can be done!

I also find that with drinking it's hard to get a definitive answer out of anyone in terms of how much you can drink and be safe... I was in no way a major boozer but wine was a major pleasure in my life and I have found it so hard only having a couple of glasses now and again, especially when you've been "on" all day looking after a baby and you need to relax. I always feel I need to stop after one and a half glasses while DH and family can have a few more. Know I'm a horrid shallow person but have been really resentful about it!

RitaMorgan - so do you feed every 2-2 1/2 hrs? From reading I thought that they needed around 5 feeds a day at 5 months though my DD does seem to need more.

Thanks for all your input!

I eat no crap at all. No crisps, cakes, sweets, choc etc and workout 4 or 5 times a week either running, resistance or other cardio as well as walking everywhere. It took me forever to loe the weight with dd and I was too sedentary and ate too much rubbish. This time I swore I'd use the calories burned by bf to help regain my figure instead of using it as an excuse to eat.

All that said, I don't think there's anything wrong with eating what you want and taking it easy when you have a small baby. Just decided to do it differently this time round.

I've found the weight has dropped off a bit quicker after 6 months anyway (still BF my 8m DD). She was a great sleeper to about 4 months but it's been erratic since then, I'm not convinced she's hungry every time but it's teething, temperature now it's cold or developmental - her brain is constantly trying to work out the crawling thing and waking her up with it (in crawling position ready to go!).
In short, OP, I'd stick with what you're doing and it could get worse before it gets better I'm afraid, we were every 2 hours at one point :(
As for the wine - have a couple of glasses, don't worry about BF afterwards but I'd take it easy - who wants to deal with a baby and a hangover in the morning!

Every 3 hours sounds amazing to me right now - DS2, 20 weeks, has been up every hour for the past two nights. I am zombie. He's ebf too and I'm struggling to fend off my mum with her 'just give him a bottle' / 'give him baby rice' campaign.

DS1 was a dreadful sleeper and I tried everything with him, on my mum's advice, and nothing made a jot of difference. Tried ebf, tried dreamfeed, tried no dreamfeed, tried formula, tried calpol (in case it was teeth), even weaned him far too early onto baby rice and nothing nothing NOTHING made any diffence whatsoever. He finally started sleeping through at 21 months old.

This too shall pass. Take each day as it comes. If you want to ff then do it, but IME it won't necessarily solve the night wakings.

Good luck OP, at least you know you're not alone!