Is this cluster feeding? How on earth do you cope?

[MixedBerries]

My DS is 5 weeks today and 2 days ago had his posterior tongue tie snipped. Up until then we've been combining breast feeding and bottle feeding expressed milk. So we've been assessed by the lactation specialist and latch is fine, tongue is now fine and my supply is fine so nothing appears to be wrong.
Since yesterday I have been trying to exclusively breast feed (as expressing and boob feeding and messing with bottles all at the same time is such a faff). BUT he hasn't been off the boob since.

Today so far has been:
8.15-9.10 FEED
9.10-9.45 play
9.45-10.00 FEED
10.00-10.20 sleep
10.20-10.35 FEED
10.35-10.40 sleep
10.40-10.50 FEED
2 MINUTE SLEEP
10.52-11.02 FEED
11.02-11.15 hug/cry
11.15-11.30 FEED
11.30-12.10 sleep
12.10-12.25 FEED
12.25-12.35 cry
12.35-12.50 FEED
12.50-1.00 cry

At 1.00 I finally caved in and gave him boob milk by bottle. He only drank 20 mls and fell asleep. It was like this all night too until I gave him expressed milk and then he slept 4 hours.
How on earth do people survive cluster feeding? I don't even have time to go to the loo or eat. Does this get better or am I condemned to never sleep again or leave the house?
I really can't cope with this. Why will he sleep after a bottle but not the boob? No-one said it would be this hard or this painful or this tiring just to feed a baby/. Despite starting out as a breast feeding fanatic I'm so seriously considering formula after all this faff with mastitis/tongue tie/expressing. HELP!

It will pass, sounds like a growth spurt, hard work but doesn't last too long.

Having a newborn is EXHAUSTING. Utterly, utterly exhausting. Not just the feeding but the constant needing to be with them, not being able to put them down or go to the loo or take a shower. It's absolute hell for most people, quite frankly, other than those very few people who have really "easy" babies. Even then it's really tough.

You're clearly very commited to BFing. Maybe write yourself a list of what BFing means to you and pin it on your wall. Don't think about tomorrow, just think about BFing today. You've had a tough start anyway and you've only just had the TT snipped. Your baby is telling your body to MAKE MILK NOW and it will take a week or so to get itself settled down, but settled down it will get, I promise.

You already know how much a faff it is to sterilise, express etc. Imagine that from now on in rather than just lifting your top :) I promise, this passes. Try to go with it, forget the ironing and keep the faith :)

This sounds so much like what I'm going through too...have been panicking about how normal this is...??
My DS is 9days old and delivered by c-section...was put on formula initially due to low sugar levels and my nipples being flat so he didnt 't latch on and t me in t hospital tried to help me hand express with no luck...so he got used having formula from a cup...since t weekend I've tried to ebf using nipple shields and ebm via cups. It's been so frustrating as it feels like geckos constantly feeding apart from in t evening yesterday when I have him 40ml of formula - which knocked him out for a good 3hours! I am fighting t tears and lows - telling myself that this is hopefully some transition and it will get better and I'm doing t right thing for him..,
DH is worried about me too and keeps suggesting switching to bottle feeding ebm if it'll help me...I'm not quite ready to give up yet tho its hard when I haven't had anything to eat since 4am and no chance to get ready or do anything else...
Will be following with interest as I could do with some reassurance that I'm not t only one...x

All normal. Growth spurts are killers and do seem to blur into one long growth spurt, but looking back, they actually went very quickly.

Stock up on chocolate cake and wine - they will carry you through. A small glass of wine in the evenings can do wonders for your mental mood.

Also remember that your hormones are still all over the place. When I was at that stage I remember every problem was magnified, likewise every triumph.

You're doing great.

Mummyssb have you had real life advice from a breastfeeding counsellor (not a helpful MW or HV). Mums with flat nipples can breastfeed with the right help and support in place.

DS is 8 weeks and often cluster feeds. Always in the evening (6 til 10 or 11) and often in the afternoon if we're in. If we're out then he usually sleeps it out in the sling.

How I survive the afternoon cluster feeds : before I settle down I get lunch, plus LOTS of snacks + drinks (huge bottle of water) plus several books (in case I get fed up of one) plus the computer next to me. DS feeds and sleeps and feeds and I eat/read etc. Yesterday I sat here for 5 hours!

If he's screaming to be fed before I'm set up I put him in the sling whilst I get all my stuff. Beforenow I have done an afternoon with no food or drink and its not fun.

In the evenings I just watch tv with DS attatched to me and DH brings me drinks .

Some days though DS doesn't feeds much in the day - especially when I'm out. He asks for it less when im out too, although makes up for it in the evenings/next day!

At first I found all his feeding hard and tiring. but from about 6 weeks he started doing 4-5hour stretches at night so its just the day thats hard. I found I had to lower all expectations. I aim to do very little in the day except feed DS. That way im less frustrated. When DH gets home I hand DS over for a play and I get going with all the other stuff I need to do!

Good luck. 5/6 weeks was a low point for me concerning feeding. I thought DS was feeding too much but lovely mumsnetters said breastfed babies cant overfeed so I stopped worrying.

BUT I do try to go out every day. DS sleeps or looks around and is less demanding of food, and I get to clear my head. Can be hard finding the energy though somedays...

It sounds like a growth spurt so this could go on for a couple of days.
I do think though that the little 5-10 min sleeps are not really sleeps. He is just resting in the middle of a feed. Do you unlatch him evrytime he falls asleep? If so leave him there and he will probably drift into the next phase of the breastfeed. At such a young age a typical breastfeed can easily take an hour. bY taking him off the breast and trying to settle him you could be making hte feed longer. Also he has just had his mouth meesed with and he may be finding it uncomfirtable to suck effectively, hence downng the free flowing bottle and then sleeping.

Keep going, breastfeeding is tough at first but you are producing the milk so you can do it. Cluster feeding is tiring but babies usually pick a time of day to cluster feed so you know it is a chance to sit and rest

Oh, it's hideous isn't it? I do feel for you. I remember DS one night feeding from 7pm -midnight (with the occasional 5 mins power nap) and then waking up at 1:30am for more! I sat up in bed, having put him in his moses basket an hour previously, and I swear I started looking around the room for a hidden camera. I honestly thought it had to be a big joke. Awful. I agree with other posters - if you can keep with it it is worth it. This is just a stage, it will pass. You're doing great .

Ah yes... Those cluster feeds!!! I know you probably are thinking is it worth it and why?? As the mum of 21 wo ds, I do remember thinking that- ESP As a bottle can knock them out!! But as someone who battled to get bf established, and thought I'd only do it fir a few weeks, here I am still going strong. Some days are still tough, my ds feeds every 2 hrs day and night, we have no real routine going and sometimes I feel like just giving up. But what keeps me going is how easy it has become!! And believe it or not, the freedom!! I don't have to count how many bottles I have to take with me if I'm going somewhere, and I can do things last minute, or change my mind about heading home and go somewhere else, all because I have my boobs with me at all times. In fact I don't see myself giving up any time soon!! I've posted on mn several times with several probs, and always get the right advice to keep me going. You can do this!! Fwiw I never set a time limit on how long I would bf, I took each day as it came, and it's worked for us. This stage will pass, as will the next and the next!! Good luck!

...oops just noticed all t typos in my msg - damn predictive text!

Ok - quick question, sorry to hijack t thread...can it be cluster feeding if it lasts ALL day?!
I've literally not stopped swapping DS from boob to boob since 8am and he's still going strong, although he is shattered he won't fall asleep for more than 15mins or so before waking and seeming starving as if he hasn't fed for hours...?!
I'm so tempted to get t formula out now just to call it a day...

Any advice much welcome...

Oh MummySSB, I'm sorry. If it helps it's still the same here. I was wondering the same: ALL DAY and NIGHT cluster feeding? I gave him bottles of EBM from 10 PM and he settled. Now it's started again for the day. I'm wondering about calling it a day too. He's had 5 weeks of boob milk. Any more is going to kill me.

There are a few things to look out for. This page may really help you: www.kellymom.com/bf/normal/newborn-nursing.html

The answer is that yes, this is common and normal and a very frequent reason why people move to formula because they feel that there's not enough milk. It passes really quickly and things settle down, but it is awful while you're in the middle of it.

It can also indicate a problem, of course, which you would know about because one or both of these things wouldn't happen: baby wouldn't be gaining weight as expected (although low weight gain in itself is not as simple as it sounds, but needs to be looked at in case it's an indication of a problem - it's not always), and nappy output wouldn't be sufficient (the link above explains what to look for).

Assuming all is well in these departments, if you hang on in there it WILL pass and it will be like night and day to how it is now.

Thanks, carrot, for your tips. There is/has been a problem and that's tongue tie. He's had it snipped twice though but still can't or won't feed efficiently. There are no problems with low milk supply- I suffer from engorgement and am in the middle of my second bout of mastitis caused because he can't drain the breasts properly. So I don't think this is down to a growth spurt like some have said.
On the plus side for him, his weight gain has been good (as we had been feeding expressed milk by bottle) and nappy output is prolific! So he's fine as long as he spends all day plugged into me and gets top ups of my milk by bottle.
That's where the problem lies. I know frequent feeding is normal (12 + in 24 hours) but he's feeding 18 times in 12 hours plus two 5 oz bottles. When he's not on my boob, I'm expressing milk to relieve engorgement and feed him later. I'm in constant pain and there seems to be no end in sight. If his boob feeding doesn't improve, I'll need to reconsider or I'll end up in hospital. :(

mixedberries It's very, very hard to really get a good idea of what's going on on a forum, but I do agree that with this additional information that all is not well, or normal. From your original post although you mention the TT as you say, people are saying all is normal so I?d assumed that was correct. But you?re in pain ? that is NOT normal.

So, you are making plenty of milk but he?s not able to efficiently feed. This is causing you to get blocked ducts leading to mastitis. His growth and output is ok but only because you?re having to express and top up. Does that sound accurate?

You?re in pain ? can you tell me more about the pain? Nipples/breast? Type, feeling, when you hurt, when it?s better/worse?

Now you say that the lactation specialist says that the latch is fine. But you?re in pain, so something is wrong. Do you happen to know what qualifications your specialist has?

What do YOU think about the latch? Are your nipples damaged? What shape are they when he comes off?

mixed I'm away for a few days and unable to check back here but do post an update/reply as there are plenty of people who can help.

I'll check in next week. Hang on in there :)

In addition to OCC's questions - Do you feel any change in your breasts from the start of the feed to the end (softer/harder/lumps present/not present)?

Have you ever tried breast compressions during a feed? It's a way of helping the baby to feed and can work if baby is a bit uncoordinated when feeding or struggles to feed effectively.

How does your son feed with a bottle? Is he messy (spluttering or gulping the milk/milk leaking out the sides of his mouth/teat pushed out frequently) or does he feed effectively with the bottle?

Sorry for so many questions - it's just things we could see face to face in seconds take half an hour to type out on a forum!

I really can sympathise! My DD has been a constant feeder from day 1! Even now at nearly 19 weeks she still cluster feeds in the evening and goes approx 45 minutes between feeds in the day! Ive just sort of accepted it, she is getting better and is good at night but it is very hard work! I also have a 3 year old DS so I am shattered 24/7!

At the end of the day I know it wont last forever and I do enjoy feeding her so for me its all worth it!

How are you mixedberries?