Can I use cold tap water to make formula bottle for DS (9 months)?

[33goingon64]

I am still using First infant SMA formula powder, as I gather there are no nutritional benefits to moving to Follow On formula. The tin says I need to use cooled, boiled water... But is that just for babies under 6 months or do I always have to use boiled water? It's such a faff having to boil the kettle in advance and am getting tempted to move on to the much more expensive ready to pour stuff. Not sure if there is something about the First Infant formula that requires the water to be warm?

Oh gosh, I see why you would be annoyed if people said that actually implying that it was a daily thing (and it would be wrong, and a horrible thing to say). Clearly on this thread they've not, because it's been made clear that serious illness is rare :)

I don't assume anything about why someone chooses to FF. FF carries risks (as do many things in life). That's just a fact, not a judgement. Many people who choose to FF would have many more serious risks from BFing. Others know the risks, and could have BF, but for reasons of their own still choose to FF. It seems to me that in that latter instance the pros and cons have been balanced by that family for their own circumstances and it's therefore the right choice for them. What's to judge?

Others don't know what the risks are and therefore can't make an informed choice. That's not fair.

I don't think we're disagreeing too much :) :)

I agree, lilham, that Rita's example, and honey and botulism are good examples of very teeny risk... huge consequences.

The difference is of course that the added complication is the less serious but far more common consequences which is where the analogy breaks down.

It's not scaremongering to share information that unsafely-prepared formula feeds cause illness in babies - usually minor but just occasionally, serious, and even more occasionally, very serious. The studies show that preparing it safely and storing it safely reduces the presence of disease-causing bugs to a level that if not 100 per cent safe ('cos nothing is that....) to an acceptable level.

I don't think anyone sensible would suggest that mothers who ff are making some sort of decision to put their babies at risk - and mostly, the ones who are not preparing the feeds safely have not been told how or why.

Having seen how miserable gastroenteritis made my DD when I stopped bf I agree with OCC that we do need to talk about the risks of stomach upsets more - both in terms of a reason to choose bf (where the choice is avaiable, which is the case for most, but not all women) and in terms of motivation to be absolutely meticulous about ff hygiene.

People talk about the rather nebulous statistical possibilities of asthma and imperceptible changes in IQ a lot, but not about just how awful it is when your baby gets sick, and how serious it can be.

(not saying the other benefits of bf aren't real, just that they're perhaps not as tangible as an illness which hospitalises so many infants each year).

The news story I was talking about on SMA is here Baby Milk in Botulism Scare.

It won't dissolve properly in cold water, but as far as boiling for sterilisation is concerned it won't matter. But then if your child is old enough to be able to drink tap water and eat a variety of solid foods they probably don't need follow on milk anyway.

Gosh, how interesting! I am worried now that we have been putting DS's health at risk by putting the hot, boiled water into the bottle when we go to bed at 10pm and then adding the powder at 2am or 4am or whenever he wakes for a feed. I have only recently stopped bf so this is all a bit new to me. So really, to be completely safe, I need to boil the kettle fresh at 4am or whatever and then cool it down?

You could keep the boiled water in a vacuum flask instead of the bottle. That would be fine.

I think this thread and the others that crop up periodically about formula preparation prove how much confusion exists about how to prepare it safely.

Mind you, in the last two weeks, I have heard a mw say that the reason more formula fed babies get gastro enteritis is because they don't have the protection of the gut that bm gives- she discounted unsafe formula preparation as a reason.

In another conversation about making up bottles, a HCP who actually runs a bfing support group said to me that she thinks exposing babies to some 'bugs' is a good thing as it builds up their immunity. I was rather and somewhat concerned at this attitude. She then trotted out the line about her DD being formula fed and is now a healthy teenager.

Ok, sorry to be thick, but can I put hot boiled water into the bottle, then put it in the fridge at 10pm, then add the formula at 4am? Or is it better to add the formula at 10pm, then put it in the fridge?

Powder must be added to hot water.

So if you're fridging it then add the powder to hot water at 10pm, rapid cool, put at the back of the fridge and reheat as needed.

There's a massive load of confusion, prob because of the idea (wrong) that domestic water needs 'making safe' for babies.

Here is a little pome wot I just wrote:

"The water's ok but the powder is not
That's why you boil water, adding powder while HOT"

Should I sell it to Aptamil ? :)

This is the first time I've wished MN had a like button.

When I made up formula milk for my daughter when she was 6 months + I used boiling water (pretty much straight from the kettle), mixed this really well with the powder and then added cold water from the tap to get it to the right temp. I worked out how many ounces of boiling/cold I needed to get the right temp. Surely any bacteria would then be killed by the boiling water (and as tap water is safe from 6 months, there is no problem adding a bit of cold in?)

Hmmmmm....the trouble is that actually using boiling water apparently denatures some of the nutrients in the powder. I can't give a reference for that, but this is my understanding. The water has to cool a little, but not so much that the pathogens are not zapped sufficiently.

That's why the authorities devised the guidelines of 70 degrees as being hot, but not too hot.

Princess - there is no problem adding cold water. You were doing the right thing adding the powder to hot water, but the water should have cooled down to 70 deg otherwise it kills some of the nutrients in the milk.

33goingon64 - are you sorted now? You need to add the powder to water boiled and cooled down to 70 deg (you soon know what this feels like/how long it takes) then you can add other water later if that's easier for you or you can make the whole bottle up and heat it when the baby wants it.

"Mind you, in the last two weeks, I have heard a mw say that the reason more formula fed babies get gastro enteritis is because they don't have the protection of the gut that bm gives- she discounted unsafe formula preparation as a reason."

It's true that they lose this protection when not BF. For BF baby any formula or other drinks, eg fennel tea or (god forbid) orange juice etc will reduce or remove the lining that the BM puts onto the gut which is what gives protection against pathogens migrating into the body. This is why "just one bottle" can be a problem - although of course ANY breastmilk has a squillion other brilliant things going on.

But to discount unsafe formula preparation as a reason is quite simply dangerous. .

I don't disagree that exposing children to some bugs is a good idea. But not salmonella and botulism FFS!

princess the boiling water will have destroyed some of the vitamins in the powder, which is why it's recommended that it's around 70 degrees. Not hot enough to seriously impact on the vits, but hot enough to destroy bugs.

tiktok Love it!!

Sorry, X posts there obviously princess.

ah - and it seemed like such an easy solution at the time....

well thank you. I'm having my second baby in 3 weeks so at least I'll know how to do it this time...

My 7mo has never had an upset stomach (touch wood!) and since we stopped BF at 3 weeks :( i have made all his bottles up in the morning (boiled water cooled for 30 mins then make up bottle, cool and pop in fridge).

I would never leave a bottle more than 12 hours. And my sis who is a midwife done the same for her 2 girls who are fit and healthy toddlers.

The important part in my brain is the 70 deg water to "sterilise" the formula.

Thanks everyone for your advice. I am not sure I fancy warming up a chilled bottle at 4am either so am trying to keep my bf supply up enough to do night feeds...

How about using a carton?

WhoIsThatMaskedWoman

"People talk about the rather nebulous statistical possibilities of asthma and imperceptible changes in IQ a lot,"

Not wishing to get into a debate about this as it's not the point of the thread but I do feel that I need to clarify that these are NOT nebulous. There is very, very clear and repeated evidence to show these and other risks of FF.

But I totally agree that gastro illnesses should be discussed more.

Oh I absolutely don't mean that they're not real at the population level, but I think they're perhaps less tangible to the individual mother making choices.