Breastfeeding nightmare

[HandDivedScallopsrgreat]

DS2 is now 9 days old and BFing is just a nightmare. DS1 never latched on (and I ended up expressing for 7 months) and I was sooo pleased when DS2 latched on straight away. All the midwives at the hospital said he was latched on correctly (we were in for 36 hrs), however, over the next 3 days it got so painful I couldn't bear it. My nipples were cracked and bleeding. So I ended up expressing and feeding by cup for some feeds in an attempt to help my nipples heal. Also tried using nipple shields but he didn't take to them and they definitely weren't helping pain wise. So I've given them up.

However, the problem is now that he isn't latching on at all. I am managing to get him latched on once a day basically (more through good luck than good judgement). It is still painful when latched on. I don't think he is taking enough of the areola but I don't know how to get him to open his mouth wide enough (apart from when screams!). On the odd occasion he does he does he just gags and doesn't latch.

I really don't know what to do other than keep trying but at the moment I feel like we are going backwards and BFing is slipping away. I can't stop crying and although DH is being a star, especially with DS1, I am not sure how sustainable this situation is. I am not getting much sleep, feeding is taking hours, literally, as I am spending so much time trying to get him latched on. And feeding by cup can be a battle too. On the odd occasion he is latching he is feeding for about half an hour, which is just bliss (apart from the pain!). Oh and he also has jaundice - joys!

The positives are that I am expressing enough milk to feed the entire street so it isn't an issue from that respect.

I am going to a local BF Support Group tomorrow and I have just rung the NCT helpline so waiting for a call back. I did ask 3 times for a breast feeding counsellor last week from the local midwives but I haven't heard anything. The midwives are being supportive and seeing me regularly (apart from the one who told me that I might just be one of those women for whom it is always painful . Just what I wanted to hear!).

I am feeling that the attempts I made to make BFing more sustainable i.e. feeding by cup and the nipple shields have made the situation much worse. I don't have confidence (because of what happened with DS1) that we are going to get it back and ever have pain free, latched on feeds.

Does anyone have any positive stories or tips to help get us back on track?

Poor you! It does sound like a total nightmare and I hear you about the expressing situation. I am still topping up DS's feeds 4 months on. However, all is certainly not lost and FGS don't feel bad about the cup-feeding or nipple shields - you were just trying to deal with the problem. Nipple shields (Medela) were the only way I could get DS to latch on and we used them until a couple of weeks ago. I feed my son expressed milk using my finger and a syringe with a catheter tube attached which is fairly easy once you get the hang of it.
See:
[http://www.kellymom.com/bf/pumping/alternative-feeding.html#FF]

Regarding the latching problem I think you need expert help from an IBCLC [http://www.lcgb.org/]

I really hope you can sort this out soon xx

Have you tried an SNS (supplemental nursing system)?

Has he been checked for tongue tie? That's probably the biggest cause of babies not being able to get a deep enough latch.

Oh thanks for your replies. Tongue-tie has been checked by 3 separate midwives and it all seems to be OK.

What is SNS? I am willing to try anything at the moment.

Thanks for the links RingEir and the sympathy .

Ahh just googled SNS - no I haven't. Something to think about trying, definitely.

You're welcome! :) With the right help and support you will get there in the end.

I could have written your thread.

Tbh I think the docs and midwifes only look for a tongue tie that is tied from the tip of the tongue iykwim,
The bfc noticed my ds had a prostitor tongue tie which was snipped when he was 4 weeks old. It made a huge difference with his latch.

Just a quick update. Got him latching on again yesterday after doing a "rebirth and reset" as suggested by the NCT helpline.

Finally saw a BF counsellor at the local hospital today who was doing a tongue-tie clinic. Bertie/Lolly you were right - it was a "subtle" tongue tie - hence why it had been missed by 4 midwives! She snipped it there and then. So bloody relieved that I wasn't being a wuss/going mad!

Managed to get him feeding straight after and pain was vastly reduced and he was taking more of the areola. Still a little bit sore but hopefully as we both get used to this state over the next 24 hrs that will reduce - and obviously my nipples are a bit mashed anyway!

Ahh, just got to the end and found the TT update. I was going to suggest he be checked for a sneaky tie (and midwives are not usually trained to check for them). Excellent news.

Just something to note - TTs can grow back, so if things aren't really getting better in 5 days or so, pop back to the clinic. Also, you may need some further support with getting the latch sorted out so it would be worth a trip to a BFing clinic or group.

How right you are organiccarrot - not really seen any improvement at all. In fact we seem to be going backwards again now. I spent 4 hours last night trying to get a non-painful latch and didn't succeed. This situation is fast becoming unsustainable and I am turning into a crying miserable wreck.

Can you get back to clinic urgently?

I don't know, as the lady who runs it contacted me (via my midwives) and so I don't have a number or anything. I could try the hospital though. Midwife supposed to be coming today but so far hasn't appeared.

CAn you call LLL or NCT helplines - sometimes babies who have had a TT learn to latch one way that is relatively efficient then TT is cut and they have to relearn. Chatting to BFC might throw up some techniques you hadn't heard of/thought of.

www.breastfeedingcommunity.co.uk/support_organisations.htm

Hi WoTmania - I have spoken to someone from LLL this afternoon and I am seeing her on Monday. She mentioned that his pallette might also need "reshaping" as a result of the TT. In addition she talked about biological nurturing so I am going to have a go at that and "breast-shaping" to encourage the nipple into the top of the mouth.

Hope the biological nurturing is helpful and gives you some respite until you can meet with the LLL lady on Monday.

It's just amazing how many babies we see at our bfing support group who have had tongue ties missed by mws.

btw, hope you don't mind me asking, but was exactly is "rebirth and reset"? I've never come across that before.

try contacting the breastfeeding network for some really amazing helpful advice. The first few weeks can be really hard but there may be something they can do to help you (they are completely hands off and wont molest you i promise!) Poor you, you must be tired. Some people find that it is hard to get their baby latched on in the first few weeks and there may be some simple techniques to help you. You must seek advice though and dont be ashamed of it because this is your baby's health you are talking about! You deserve a lot of help and support! One thing you could try if you are really worried is to express a liltle milk, by hand into your baby's mouth. This way your baby will get a little of your milk which may encourage him to latch on, even just a small amount of your milk has so much amazing goodness in it that it will perk him up enough to try feeding. I would recommend not leaving it ntil he seems hungry but just keep trying all the time. Im sure you must be very tired but just keep trying to feed all the time. Hvae you tried different positions such as lying on your side with the baby next to you. Rub his cheek gently to get him to turn the right way and hopefully he will open his mouth really wide and at that point you can take aim. Are your breasts feeling very full? This can make latch difficult for a baby so again expressing a little, in a very gentle way, can help. Please make sure you get loads of help, and more than anything get lots of cuddles and skin to skin with your beautiful baby. Lots of luck x

I hope that helps - does she think he may have a bubble palate? All 3 of mine had this and I found the 'exaggerated latch' worked alongside rolling/pushing the nipple into their mouth in the early days.

Hi all thanks for all the tips. Well things have improved! Hurrah. We have had some pain free feeds. WoTmania - I think you may be right. At the moment I am doing just that - rolling/pushing the nipple into the mouth and trying to point the nipple at the roof of the mouth. Sometimes it works well other times, not so much.

woahthere - yes full breasts. I find it much easier to attach when the breasts are emptier so I am expressing too.

crikeybadger - rebirth and reset basically was a deep bath with DS with him lying on me and his body submerged. He just went for the breast and latched on. Although it was painful (as this was before TT was sorted) it did work about getting him back used to latching on. It was quite amazing. I haven't tried biological nurturing yet (as things began improving soon after previous post) but will do if still having issues with the latch on.

Interestingly my right breast seems to produce much quicker feeds - 10-15 mins compared with half an hour or more on the left breast. I presume that isn't unusual. It does mean that I have to work harder at getting the latch correct on the left breast otherwise it gets more and more uncomfortable.

Oh and I managed my first feed outside the house today. OK it was only at MILs but it still gave me a bit of confidence that I could feed DS on the move!

Great news that you've had some pain free feeds- well done

Thanks for the explanation too of the rebirth- v. interesting.

So glad it's getting better! 'tis rubbish when it's painful. If you can get a copy there's a DVD by an Australian LC which is very good at demonstrationg the niple fold. It's 'follow Me Mum' by Rebecca Glover. You might find the local PS group has it.