Breastfeeding Woes

[Glowbuggy]

Hi Everyone,
Just looking for a little advice/reassurance. I'm trying to BF my 5 week old DS. He was a teeny 6 pounds and lost some weight after birth (as they do). I had so much trouble getting him to latch as I have quite large boobs but we finally got there with nipple shields.
Problem is that it takes ages for him to feed, sometimes over 45 mins each side. I know he is getting plenty as he is a messy feeder and there is just milk everywhere but it still takes ages.
Then after 3 weeks the HV was very concerned that he wasn't putting on any weight and told me to give him formula top ups, which I have been doing, also giving him expressed milk top ups when I can to limit the formula. This worked as in 2 weeks he has put on a pound and a half.
My problem now is that two feeds today where I let him drain each breast he went on to guzzle 5 ounces (each time) of extra top ups. Since I started the top ups he just wants more ever day. I just feel like a breastfeeding failure and that I'm starving the poor thing. Why does he need the top ups? Why does it take him so long, although I know most of it is possibly comfort. He also feeds every two hours and I'm exhausted. I'm starting to not enjoy the b/f as it feels like a marathon I can't complete. Should I perservere? Have had latch checked so that's not it. Sigh.

Ok, there may be a lot of things going on here.

Who checked the latch? Are you still using nipple shields? Do you have any other health concerns? When did he start feeding well?

Was he not putting on any weight at three weeks? Or not enough weight?

How are your nipples feeling? Does feeding hurt? What shape are your nipples after a feed?

When you say he takes 45 minutes each side, does he generally have both sides in a feed? Is he really sucking hard for 45 minutes? Or is he dozing off? Have you tried breast compression? (Google it - Jack Newman has done videos) That can speed things up.

The more formula you offer, the less breastmilk he will take. The less breastmilk he takes, the less breastmilk you will make.

Sorry, I think that may have come across less sympathetically than I meant it - it sounds like throughout this, you've done the best you could, with the information and assistance you've had. If anything is going wrong here, it's not your fault.

Babies will take more milk from a bottle than they necessarily need.

Thanks - yes I'm still using the shields, but we have been practicing without but he can't quite get it yet and becomes frustrated. I was hoping the bigger he got the easier it would become.
No other health concerns and it was a midwife and HV that checked latch.
He was putting on weight but only 2 oz a week and week 3 was zero. He screamed a lot and the HV thought he had colic. Turns out he was just hungry. He never seems to settle after just a breast feed, even if I just let him keep going. I will switch sides a few times during the process with regular burps. I always BF before he gets a bottle, this is a last resort to me but he always screams with hunger and it the only way he'll be full.
Well I think, I mean it obvious I'm doing something wrong but I cant sit on the sofa and feed him for 15 hours a day.
Nipples are not sore, they get a bit uncomfortable on a long feed but not cracked or red.

Sorry didn't answer all questions.

After about 30 mins he does start to doze so I try and wake him up with a nappy change and burp. He tricks me at the end and I think he's settled so I try and put him down, 5 mins later hungry again. That's when he gets the top up. He does that little sucky O think with his mouth.

My nipples and sort of cone shape I guess at the end, that will be the shield. I do have quite small nipples which is why I thought he had issues latching on.

Hi Glowbuggy

I have similar with my 6 week old.

I am using nipple shields too (flat) which are a god send. I was in tears the day after being discharged with cracked nips.

My DS tends to feed anything from 10 to 45 mins. He always drinks a bit of the foremilk but generally spits it out. He then gets frustrated because all he really wants the the creamy hindmilk. He'll fall asleep so I tickle his feet, change him anything to rouse him.

I have got around this with expressing a little of the foremilk before he feeds. That way he gets a bit of a drink and most of the good stuff. That way, I'm not spending the best part of an hour feeding each time and DS gets the calorific milk.

Once he has had a bit of a good feed, I'll take the sheild off and feed with out it (if I can!)

Glowbuggy - what a difficult situation....easily the most cumbersome and time consuming way to feed (direct bf, plus expressing, plus formula....) :( :(

I think a call to a breastfeeding counsellor would help you.

My concern would be that breastfeeding has not ever got off the ground properly - not your fault as goodness knows you are working at it! But the HV seems to have been unable to help tackle the issue in a way which protects your bf.

10 ounces of formula in 24 hours is actually a large amount - I guess doing the maths he is under 8 pounds, and this would represent half his intake if he was fully ff. You will not be able to build up to a good milk supply with this amount of formula - so a discussion with your HV and the bfc on reducing this gradually and ensuring more effective breastfeeding to build up your supply is the next move.

Switch nursing - where he is put back to the breast after he has had two breasts, and then again for a fourth and fifth time even - improves intake and production, but milk removal has to be effective at the same time. Use of shields may be undermining this.

Hope you get good help soon.

I don't have any advice, but it sounds like you are doing a great job!

I did the same with my DD, topped her up with formula & expressed. She would also feed for what seemed like forever.

Keep at it, as I promise it gets easier! My DD is nearly 11 months and I am still BF her. It is so easy to just 'pop her on' rather than faffing about making bottles.

I feel too that my BF never took off. I thought it was going great, lots of feeds and apart from the lengthy feeding (which I naively maybe thought was normal), that we were ok. Then the HV telling me he wasn't gaining weight was a shock. I don't understand because I was feeding on demand. Still am, but with bottles too. I hate expressing and top up bottles, I just wish I could find this a lovely experience but I'm just getting stressed and frustrated.
I will call the BF hotline tomorrow.
I also want to get rid of shields and we have been trying but he thrashed his head around like a mad man, I've even watched videos and looked at pictures for latch positions and I still can't get him to do it. I should add that he only likes the rugby ball position also. Maybe I need to stop this as he gets too comfy and dozes.

Ok, now I've been feeding since 5am. It's now 7. We've swapped sides 3 times, he fell asleep so I put him down in bed with me, he woke up crying after 5 mins, back on the boob and still here. There is a lot of milk when I squeeze and he is gulping.when will he finish, I'm exhausted. He also fed for two hours at 1am so that's 4 hours feeding for 2 hours sleep. I can't take much more-do I give in and give bottle?

:( Glowbuggy....hard work, no doubting that.....:(

But this is what restoring/re-establishing a good milk supply is - long feeds with small dozes only of a few mins in between, with switching sides (3 times prob not enough in 2 hours, though)...with the baby continuing to feed and crying when put down.

Your baby is doing the only thing he can to ensure plenty of milk is made and plenty of milk is taken in....he is 'asking' for frequent 'cluster' feeds. This won't last. Your role is to decide when enough is enough for you - the formula bottle will prob knock him out which will allow you to rest a bit, and maybe this is what is needed for you at the moment. Only you can decide. He will prob need some formula while the process of restoring your milk takes place anyway, and it's right that he has some - you will need to downsize the amounts gradually though.

If you can, concentrate on the feeding/cuddling over the next few days and have other people do other things, if they are around.

Hope today goes better.

Hi,
Thanks so much for your advice. After this threading decided to ditch the shields and the top ups. We have sat on the sofa the past couple of days and worked through this together. He was very frustrated with me, thrashing about and pulling his head back once he had latched on and screaming. There were many tears by me But today ALL DAY, he has latched on first go and drank for gold. Feeds are shorter (apart from the cluster time) and he seems happier and I got some smiles.
I almost gave up and I'm so happy I didn't. I wish I had posted on here earlier before the HV had advised me to use shields and use top ups. Breast feeding support Is so important and I feel a bit let down that formula was their answer. I have bonded more with my baby in the last 3 days than the first 5 weeks and I'm so happy. I even breasted in public for the first time today....well in the car looking out at the sea, but this was a big deal for me.
Now my only worry is his weight which was what started all the top up advice in the first place. But as I'm feeding on demand with lots of dirty and wet nappies and a pretty settled baby I'm hoping it will be positive.
I'm so tired but so happy I've turned this corner x

Glad things are going better :)

You might feel courageous enough to let the HV know how unhelpful she has been......?

Well we were weighed today and he has put on 12 oz in a week. I'm so pleased as I really thought if he had not gained then I would give up. Now I look forward to BF and love my baby even more.
Tiktok, I made some comments about receiving other advice that had worked. The problem I have with complaining is th HV is my husbands mothers friend. I did make some comments to my MIL though that was disappointed with th BF support...maybe on the grapevine.
Thanks again.

Omg, I've just read this whole thread and now have tears in my eyes- just so happy for you!!! Bf is precious, enjoy . ( and big pat on the back for you, you are amazing!)

Me too - SO happy for youglowbuggy. Well done - absolutely bloody well done.

Wow, 12oz in a week! And in a week when you've ditched nipple shields and top ups! That's bloody amazing! :D Absolutely well done you, fanastic!

Superb :) :)

Difficult to complain, I understand that.

But if you can see your way to doing something....grapevines don't work in my experience :(