Bubble or high palate... Bf problems...any advice?

[petaluma]

Dd has been diagnosed with a bubble palate which explains my supply issues and constant feeding/fussing cycles. I have a toddler ds to look after do marathon feeds can't carry on for much longer. Anyone have any experience of this and/or advice? Dd is 4 weeks old.

Well, a bubble or high palate is often caused by a tongue tie so the first thing you might want to consider is having that checked. If there is a tongue tie snipping it may really help.

I was told that cranial osteopathy (and this need doing again after a TT snip) can help to release the palate. I'm not sure whether there is evidence for this other than some strong anecdotal evidence (because I've never looked, not because I don't think there is any).

As she gets bigger it's likely to get better because her ability to latch with a bigger mouth will improve. In the meantime you might consider trying a sling, and learning to feed in one, expressing when you can (if you can) to try to keep your supply up. I know that's easier said than done.

Many babies with high palates will also struggle with bottles so it's not necessarily a better option, especially with the faff of them as well. Just something to think about.

I don't know if this gives you anything to think about at all?

Thanks organiccarrotcake

Definitely no Tongue tie as had this checked at birth since ds1 had this, and also caused bf problems.

Went to bf cafe clinic today and they had never even heard of bubble palate before.

As for the sling, that's a great idea. We've used one in the house when putting ds to bed to cope with the cluster marathon. Might need a bit more practice to do it discreetly out and about though. Was considering using it when out with them both on my own anyway as trying to stop ds getting run over whilst negotiating baby in pushchair.

Damn iPhone!

As for cranial osteopathy, I'll look into this, thanks

Although I've no experance of bubble palate's myself. My friends little boy had one, she had a lot of problems to start with, but had some really good advice from a BF counciler on how to get a better latch(defantly giving one of the helplines a ring). It also did get better as he got bigger, she's still feeding him now at 18months.

It turns out my DD has a very high palate (Not sure if this is the same thing?)

We had lots of problems in the beginning, but using the exaggerated latch technique helped, and now she's bigger (4 months) we only have problems latching properly at night when she's tired.

... and here is the link to an animation of exaggerated latching, which someone on here very kindly posted for me....

users.iptelecom.net.ua/~vylkas/kinolatch.html

My boy had a tongue tie and because of that a very high palate, according to two LC's and a LLL leader. After the tongue tie was snipped it still took ages to feed him easily and without my nipples being compressed but exaggerated latching and breast shaping really helped.

All 3 of my DDs have a high palate/bubble palate (suspect TT in at least 2 of them) and they bf long term DD1 was 3.6y when she self weaned and DD2 is 'still' bfing at 3.11y & DD3 is 2.1y and 'still' bfing.

An exaggerated latch like LittleWaveyLines linked to is a good way to help baby - it's sometimes called 'The Flipple' so you may find info if you search under that term too.

If you aren't sure about the TT being ruled out you could try doing the the Murphy Maneuver and if you find anything asking for a 2nd opinion/self referring to an IBCLC who deals with TT.

Wow, lots of great positive experiences. Thanks. I don't feel like all is necessarily on a downward spiral. Will give that latch a good go. Had to give dd a top up this evening as she wad so frenzied and frantically rooting, she wouldn't latch on at all. :(

Thanks again.

The lovely ladies above have already given all the tips I would have suggested, and then some! But just to say, it DOES get easier! We had a similarly high/bubble palate and a tongue tie (which wasn't picked up by the first 3 midwives and health visitors that looked into it, but I insisted it was there and asked for a referal to the Tongue Tie clinic). Coupled with nipple thrush which was excruciatingly difficult to get rid of in the early days, I can honestly say that the first 4 months (urk!) of breastfeeding was varying degrees of torture!

And then - it all changed.

The thrush was cured, the tongue tie snipped, he grew, we saw the cranial osteopath, his palate changed shape... and it's been wonderful since!

The mums in my NCT group were starting to wean their babies and most were finished bf by 6 months. After all that effort, and only just starting to really enjoy it, weaning was the furtherest thing from my mind!

We are still breastfeeding 9.5 months down the line.

It DOES get easier!!

So, I would definitely ask for another opinion about the tongue tie, and try bf before bubs becomes frantic. I personally have always worried that mixed feeding is a difficult slippery slope to manage (but am aware that other mums have managed it)....

Best of luck!

Thanks podmumlet the frantic behaviour comes after after an hour of bf - she pulls off and goes crazy. Winding doesn't work, changing breasts only makes it better for a short time - she will have fed off that one previously for a long time too, so have surmised it was frustration from hunger. She never really comes off contented and is usually unsettled between feeds. She won't be put down and cries until she's picked up again. Looking after my ds toddler is tough when dd is like this. Here's hoping it won't last long.

Have you tried switch nursing or breast compressions? This might help make milk transfer more efficient.

Is your DD having at least 6 wet disposable nappies (8 cloth) a day and pooing easily (not hard stools but loose runny ones - could be any colour from greeny yellow to korma yellow)?

Good advice truthsweet I think it's made a bit of a difference since trying. However dd's latch is a bit hit and miss at the minute so if I can't get her to latch on well one feeding session, I try to express at the end to compensate. I don't get much out but at least it's still stimulating my supply. Not always easy to fit around looking after my toddler ds who enjoys fiddling with the buttons of my electric pump, while dd cries in her bouncy chair.

Oh yes, I forgot breast compressions and switching sides frequently. I did a LOT of both of those too.

Podmumlet, I had a very similar experience to you both with asking MW's to check for tongue tie and being told he was fine and with things only really getting going and being easy at the time lots of people stop. My boy is 7 months and still a boob monster.

Hope things continue better petaluma.

petaluma, I would recommend you get a second opinion on your current baby's tongue. TT has been ruled out but from the symptoms you are describing, it is possible there is a TT but it has been missed. It could be a posterior or submucosal TT which HP's often do not recognise. This link should hopefully show a good pic of a posterior tie which can look 'normal' to many people/HP's:
www.analyticalarmadillo.co.uk/2012/01/mild-tongue-tie.html

Another way to check if there's a possible issue is if there is an upper lip tie as this is the same mid-line defect as a PTT. Some thing like this:
forums.llli.org/showthread.php?106555-Shallow-latch-lip-or-tongue-tie

I work in the NHS as part of a small BFing specialist team in our area and I pick up between 1 and 4 missed/dismissed TT's per week and these babies have been previously seen by the MW, Paediatrician, HV and sometimes GP.