Is 8mo BLW DS really still hungry in night or should we try controlled crying?

[33goingon64]

DS is almost 8 months and weighs almost 17lb. As he is eating three meals now (BLW) I am cutting a bf during the day. For a few months now he has been getting a ff bottle when he wakes at night (always wakes once, feeds, straight back to sleep). I realise it's time to stop the night feeds but not sure how to do it. DH hates idea of Controlled crying, thinks it's cruel. Is there another way?

33 is the night feed a problem or is it just that you think he should be sleeping through? If it is a problem you could consider night weaning.

He is very possibly just hungry though. Instead of cutting bfs during the day I would keep them, just to ensure he has enough calories during the day. Until they are one their main source of calories should the the milk so he should be having a bf an hour before any solids anyway.

Personally though I think that one waking in the night followed by a quick return to sleep is very, very good at 8 months no matter how you feed your baby. If you do want some help getting him to sleep through though have a read of this article and [[http://www.amazon.co.uk/No-Cry-Sleep-Solution-Through-Foreword/dp/0071381392/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1319825668&sr=8-1 this book helped us deal with DSs night time wakings [hsmile]

Many babies still have milk in the night and 8 months is very young. Why do you feel you have to cut down milk?

DS needed a feed in the night until he was 13 months or so. I'm not sure really how much food your LO will be getting in and digesting if he's BLW and only 8 months. Are they not meant to start dropping feeds by themselves once their solid food intake has picked up? I would say carry on with the night feed for a while yet and don't drop the day feeds either yet.

Gosh this is all the opposite of what the HV said! She said that solids is the main source of nutrition for him now and that he's having too much milk. She said i should now be giving him milk after a meal not before. I thought the obvious feed to drop was the night feed, but as DH is against CC I dropped a day feed (just done it today and he didn't seem to notice). I realise that with BLW it is a bit different as he may not be getting as much food as babies who eat purees, but still thought it was probably time to stop the night feeds. I go back to work in Feb and wanted to have a smooth night with no wakings by then. Sounds like I am being over optimistic!

My DD woke up for a feed once a night, every night without fail and various people including the HV told me it was habit/she wasn't hungry/I was making a rod for my own back etc, but she used to gulp the milk down and I didn't feel as though it was just a prop to get back off to sleep for her. And then, one night when she was 13 months old, she suddenly stopped wanting milk in the night. It didn't turn her into a perfect sleeper sadly but I was really pleased then that I had continued to feed her at night, until the time came, I guess, when she decided she didn't need it anymore. Having said that though, I realise 13 months (or potentially older?) probably sounds a long way off when you have an 8 month old... Good luck.

HV! [eyeroll]

Forgot to say, he had been consistently on 9th centile since birth but this week has gone up to 25th. I don't feel especially strongly that it's good or bad... Both DH and I are on the small side so not bothered he has been on 9th but did wonder if going up to 25th might mean he was having too much milk?!

I was also given to understand that the bf should come after the solid meal as otherwise they will fill up on milk and not take in enough from other foods. I didn't do blw but it can't be that different!?

I wouldn't drop a feed in the day if you don't feel like it, just change the when. I found with my DD that she let me know when she didn't need so much milk, but yes, they still need a reasonable amount at 8m.

We went cold turkey on the night feeds at 8 months and it made a big difference on DS's sleeping. We.didn't try controlled crying though just cuddled him and put him back down. We sw a difference almost straight away.

Sorry, my syntax there was appalling, but I'm very tired and hungry. I dropped a feed today - I missed my afternoon cake!

Sadly 33 I think your HV needs some retraining. Here is the information on whether they should be getting their nutrition from milk or solids.

As for jumping centiles, I'd be very loathed to cut back on milk for an 8 month old, especially one so tiny. If you are thinking of dropping any milk feeds it would be worth talking this through with a BFC rather than a HV, especially a HV who has such outdated knowledge as yours [hsmile].

TheGhost think that the BLW is irrelevant. All babies under one should have their milk an hour before solids. As I understand it they should only be offered milk after solids from one.

Have you tried offering water instead of milk during the night? If your LO is genuinely hungry it won't settle him, if he's just thirsty then it will. We did this around 10/11 months, just bf to sleep and then water during the night.

I have an 8 month old and she still wakes at night for a bottle - have tried water but its definitely milk she wants and she is heavier than yours. She is formula fed and she is still on a good few bottles during the day. She has a mixture of blw and spoon feeding but much prefers the bottles some days and then others she can be a bit meh about them.

She is my precious third born and each of the girls have been different re how many bottles they wanted, waking at night etc.

JiltedJohn I never said blw is irrelevant. I said I didn't see that it was that different in terms if how much milk to offer. Babies still need around a pint of milk up to one year, once they are on three meals a day. How this is split up is surely down to the individual baby and also the mother.

My DD started sleeping through by the time we were giving her three meals a day. She did this on her own, so I suppose you could call that blw? So I made sure she was getting the milk she needed during the day.

By this age most babies could sleep through without waking for hunger, as the longest night sleep period is influenced by a hormone that dampens hunger to allow a long period of sleep to happen (just like later when hormones act to slow down elimination so we don't wake to urinate or defecate). However, there is nothing wrong with a predominantly bfed baby waking once a night - it's most likely to be habit for comfort even if it seems like they are needing the feed , & there's nothing wrong with continuing to feed if you have no problems with it.

It's not considered particularly unusual by many sleep/parenting "experts" for children to wake once a night for several years unless there seems to be an underlying problem or the parents find it too arduous.

On the other hand if you want to move towards an unbroken night then there are steps you can take as suggested on this thread. Personally I would not try cc unless absolutely desperate. If your DH is willing to get involved, a possible strategy is to get him to deal with night waking & just settle back to sleep with water & comforting as then the baby will not expect to be bf back to sleep as much. Don't withold a bf if baby is ill or poorly in any way tho.

I have an 8 month old DS who is BWL and bf - he still wakes all bloody night several times a night for milk. My understanding is that you give as much food and milk as they ask for. They will naturally drop milk feeds as they eat more solids and this should be at their own pace.

exactly the topic I was coming on to post about! 8mo ds wakes at 11pm, 2am, 4am and we are at the end of our tether. He eats well and has 500mls of formula a day PLUS a bf from me in the morning, at about 5pm and those 3 feeds a night.

Dh and I are intent on making a start on cutting at least the 2am feed, we managed it for a couple of nights but then slipped back - the more tired we are the harder it is to not give in and just feed him (we do not cc, just cuddle back to sleep). Problem is he is in our room so while he is crying no one gets any peace! I will not even think of moving him out until he sleeps better as I did that with ds1 and just found I had to go further in the night to get him!!

Really going to try tonight.... op I do not know if they need it. I suspect he doesn´t and just wants closeness particularly with me as I work full time which makes it harder to go cold turkey on him. Good luck!

I'd think it's all individual, but I've know toddlers (including my own DD) who haven't been able to go 12hours without milk or sometimes even food in the middle of the night.

!2 hours a long time to go without any fluids. Do you as a adult go 12hours without a drink? I'm guessing most adults don't so why do we expect small baby's to.

TheGhost was having a pop at you, sorry if it came across that way.

I was just trying to say that the BLW is a bit of red herring, however a baby is fed, milk should come before solids until a year.

Sorry, JiltedJohn, re-reading your post I did take it the wrong way - I read 'thinks' instead of 'think'. You meant 'I think', didn't you.

I think my daughter still had a night feed at that age. I don't buy all this give them water stuff formula milk tastes gross so if he is waking for a bottle I think he needs it. I think it often takes smaller babies longer to go all the way through than bigger ones.

Well after discussing with DH we have decided we can live with the night feeds for a bit longer as he is obviously hungry. I have effectively dropped one day feed by simply spacing them out between meals rather than just before each one. DS doesn't seem to have noticed and in fact drinks more milk at each feed so is probably having the same amount.

It serves me right for not following my instincts which is what I have been trying to do so far with DS! Bloody HVs - it makes me [hangry] they can give the impression there is one way for all babies and giving false info is just appalling!

TheGhost yes I did mean "I think", sorry for the confusion. I tend to write how I speak which isn't necessarily always a good thing.....

33, think you will do much better following your instincts as you say and yes, it is terrible that they get away with giving out opinions rather than information.

Just wondered if you'd read this book as I think it might suit your parenting style much more than your HVs advice seems too .

Thanks JJJ, I will give that a look.