When will it get easier?

[marytee]

Hi folks this is my first post on mumsnet, although I must admit I've lurked for a little while now. I have a beautiful DD who is 11 weeks old and exclusively breastfed. I have struggled with the feeding from the start and have kept going because i keep hoping it will get easier. I feed on demand and it feels like DD feeds now as much as she did at the beginning. She feeds two hourly most of the day, and cluster feeds in the evening between about 5 and 10, generally only having an hour or two off (at the most!). She does sleep very well, often from 11 ish until 7 without waking. However, this means that I am still having problems with engorgement and often have to get up in the night anyway to pump a little off. The other problem is that sometimes she screams just after i start feeding her, arching her back and refusing to go back on, despite showing signs of hunger ( she has a little 'hungry' noise that she makes, as well as eating her hands). I am finding this really upsetting. It only seems to happen if she was awake before i start the feed - when she has just woken up from a sleep she is fine. I have seen a breastfeeding counsellor who has checked the latch and said it is fine. I have also spoken to the health visitor and the doctor, neither of whom could suggest anything. My guess is that i have a very fast let down, which she struggles with at times. DD is gaining weight beautifully and outside of feeding times is generally content. However i am finding it hard going! Would love some reassurance that it is going to get easier soon (and maybe some encouragement to keep going). Sorry its such a long post.

I wouldnt bother with gp and health visitor as they are usually pretty useless with regards breastfeeding. I would phone a NCT breastfeeding counsellor or await some good advice from other mumsnetters.

marytee-welcome to mums net heh! you are doing really well! my ds fed every 2 hours in thday then from 5pm onwards until 11pm in was almost constant!
I would just sit on the sofa and try and relax and not think about all the things that needed doing! I felt like all i was doing was feeding!! And at 3am in the morning i would be downstairs in a freezing house expressing 8oz from one boob! You feel you are on another planet,the exhaustion is overwhelming but IT DOES GET EASIER!!!
Do freeze your expressed milk if you have time.
I fed dd and ds both for 9months and it really was worth the up and downs.If you ever what advice and reassurance never be afraid to ask my NCT group were fantastic

Thank you both for replying, i realy appreciate the support. I don't know anyone else who is bf at the moment, maybe thats some of the problem. I think i need to get myself out there after christmas and make some contact with others.
Hercules - yes, the advice given by h/v was and generally is useless I'm afraid. GP at least interested and enthuasistic about b/f and reassured me there was nothing wrong with DD physically. I've picked up most that i know so far from here. The counsellor i saw was from the NCT - she was really supportive and gave me some good general advice. However, DD fed beautifully on that occasion, and despite talking through the screaming episodes we didn't really get anywhere. I will try the helpline though, thank you.
Notasheep - thanks for reasurance that not alone and does get easier. I feel completely blessed by having DD and really want to do the best for her. I think early on i 'decided' that it would get easier after the first 6 or 8 weeks and my boobs would have 'settled down', so am finding it frustrating that I'm still struggling quite a lot of the time.
Happy xmas!

That 6-8 week thing is really a red herring, isn't it? I was gutted when it hadn't all fallen into place by then and seemed, in fact, to be getting harder. It does get easier, I promise you - we went through phases where I was cutting out all kinds of stuff from my diet, convinced that what I ate was giving DS tummy pains. Now, I think it was just his immature little gut because I can eat anything and it never affects him (he's 6 months, but it's been easier for months now).

Hi marytee, welcome to mumsnet . I have a 21 week ds ( and two older dds) so that constant feeding period is not far behind me! I think you are right about the letdown thing - can you feel the letdown start? If so, can you hook your little finger in her mouth and unlatch her just for those few seconds?

Also - all three of mine suffered tummy ache, screaming for hours at a time in the evening, and I gave them infacol before each feed, which seemed to do the trick.

I agree that the 6 - 8 weeks thing leads to false expectations. It was around three months when it fell into place for me, and it was a horrendous three months. But I'm so glad I persevered with it, and I think you're doing really well to be sticking with it too.

Your dd sounds so much like mine at the same age - she would feed at least every two hours, would feed between 6 - 10pm every night, but it did ease off and the feeds did get less frequent with time. We also had the fast let down problem, and with the first feed from one side in the morning, dd would always throw the entire feed up because it seemed to come too fast for her. I solved that one by expressing from that side before she got up in the morning, then feeding her from the same side. She had no more problems with it after that, and it was the beginning of a deep and meaningful relationship with my breast pump!

Does your local hospital or maternity unit have a breast feeding counsellor, or a breast feeding group? They can be very, very useful - mine was a godsend, and it would certainly be worth seeing if your hospital has one. Or try the NCT again - if you are still struggling, they will come out to you again.

Good luck - you are doing really well.

Hi Marytee. Welcome! The advice here is great - hopefully there will be plenty of help for you although it may be a bit quieter than usual.

My DS is 20wks. Things got easier for us after about 12 wks when DSs colic passed. He is still a really fussy feeder though - latches on and wriggles and pulls off all the time!

A couple of ideas for you though... not sure if they'll apply but they helped me:

1. Are you absolutely sure it's hunger every 2 hours? The reason I ask is that DS shows signs of hunger, latches on with enthusiasm and then screams and cries and pulls off. In those cases, I think he's 'upset' when he gets milk as he doesn't really want it but does want some comfort. Usually he needs a nap and is overtired. I was basically mistaking hunger for tiredness. We also find a dummy helps when he's like this. Perhaps try to take her out a walk and encourage her to nap and see if she can go an extra hour without a feed? Is she sleeping well during the day?

2. Do you offer the second boob when she's finished the first? DS went from being a 1 boob per feed baby to wanting both at almost every feed. At the same time, he started going longer between feeds (3 or 4 hours - as he does now).

3. Again maybe on the sleep front. Have you tried putting her to bed earlier? We found that DS would take a nap about 8pm. So we simply started putting him in his bed at 8pm. He would then sleep for about 6 hours, wake for a feed and then sleep another 4 hours. We still have a night feed most nights and to be honest, I prefer that to having a constantly hungry baby during the day.

4. Have you tried getting your DH to give an expressed bottle in the evening to give you a bit of a break?

Hope you get somewhere . You are doing really well to keep going. As for the fast let down, you could express until let down and then feed your DD. That way she won't get choked with it.

Sus, x

Some great advice, thankyou. I'm really not sure where i picked up the 6-8 week thing - but i really had convinced myself that all would be okay by then!

Sus, thank you so much - i think you hit the nail on the head re the tiredness. I had noticed that the only way to settle her when she got upset was to rock her to sleep! Just hadn't fully made the connection. I think i have been trying to get her to feed with every whimper, but she doesn't settle herself easily and needs help to get off to sleep. We have been much more on the ball about sleep in the past couple of days and it has been much much better. Today she has gone 3 hours between feeds and has fed like a dream. I even risked john lewis cafe - previously avoided feeding out and about because it was too stressful. So i am feeling very pleased and much more positive She even appears to cope with the letdown better.

Unfortunately she won't take a bottle at the mo - but we are working on it. I have tried loads of different teats and got DP to do it but to no avail - any more ideas welcome!

hi marytee - gald to hear you're getting somewhere. We have to be really vigilent and watch DS for first signs of tiredness. Even now at 20wks he needs a lot of coaxing to take a nap - usually by me taking him a walk.

Can't help with the bottles really - DS has taken one since 2 wks with no problems. We use Tommee Tippee Nuby teats.

Marytee, if your dd won't take a bottle you could try giving her ebm from a teaspoon or syringe - the way they suck a bottle is diff to sucking a breast - may take longer for your dp to feed her this way but would give you a break.

My dd also sleeps very well at night and always has done - I found I had probs with engorgement although not to the point of having to get up to express but was for a long time very uncomfortable in the mornings - it will get better I promise, I've found that it's settled down a lot in the last 6 weeks or so (dd is coming up 15wks). In the end I only expressed enough to take the ege off things as found that expressing in the mornings every morning was adding to the prob - supply and demand and all that! - then gave up expressing regularly as things settled. I still express sometimes but from what ever side would be due to feed from next then do next feed on other breast - so treat the expressing like a feed iyswim?!

hi marytee - it DOES get easier ! You are very lucky to have a baby that sleeps through. My DS did not sleep through until he was about 9 - 10 months old.

The fusiness at the breast does sound like a fast let down. I remember having the same problem because he would almost choke on the first few gulps ! kellymom.com offers some really excellent reasons why a baby at that age might be fussy and solutions to deal with it.

I think it's very normal for a 11 week old to still cluster feed. That is actually probably the reason she sleeps so well she is storing up for the night.

Babies are all different. I think mine went on to a 3 hourly breastfeed during the day at about 3 months old. But as I say, I wasn't as lucky as you when it came to nights, as he still fed several times during the night for a very long time. Plus we both developed thrush when he was 5 months old and this took about 6 weeks to clear.

There was a time when I thought it would never get easier, but my DS is now 18 months old, we both still enjoy our breastfeeding sessions and I can't believe that time has gone by so quickly !!

Good luck, I really really hope that things begin to get easier for you very soon !

marytee - congrats at persevering. thankfully by dd took ebm no problem, but babywhisperer tracey hogg recommend haberman feeder - like a bottle but has valve that baby controls like breast, can suck at varied rate. with normal teat baby cabt control how fast it comes out and most bf babies protest at this. haberman feeder available from MEDELA, sorry dont have a link but they should be on web.
SUZI2 - have you tried dream feed? feed baby and put to bed at 8pm then when you go up to bed i.e 11ish, get them up + feed whilst a sleep. then can go longer without waking.

Thank you to all you fab people for taking the time to post and providing much needed reassurance. I am really hopeful that we have turned a corner at least for now. The crying at the boob appears to have stopped and we are on 3 hourlyish feeds again today. I am also unlatching dd when my let down is strong - she moans a bit but goes back on okay - so thanks for that mistletaou. Its a bit of a messy business sometimes but sure i will improve with practice. I have previously been pumping a bit off before feeds but already having problems with oversupply tend to prefer not to do this if i can help it.

The unfortunate downside to all this is that dd appears to have stopped sleeping through! We are putting her down much earlier, which is working well and was definitly part of the problem. However, she has fed at least twice a night for the last 3 nights. I know this normal, so not really an issue at the moment. She is not settling at all well after feeds though, which makes it much more tiring. Anyway, we are going to introduce a dreamfeed tonight and try swaddling again (stopped this a few weeks back and went to a sleeping bag) to see if that helps. Am also off to the 'sleep' board for some inspiration!

Gracesmum - thanks for bottle tip - will investigate.

marytee - how are things going? i have found the web address for haberman feeder. www.medela.co.uk.
hope you are all keeping well.

Hello! The feeding itself is generally still good thanks. I'm getting better at reading DD's sleepy signals and not quite so hasty in offering the boob. Night times not so good still though - she woke 3 times last night and she often doesn't settle easy. Its a shock to the system after sleeping through. I'm wondering if its time to start a bit of a routine - nothing drastic though - i have bought the baby whisperer book so thought would have a look at that. I'm not sure what to expect at what age (she's 13 weeks tomorrow) - generally prefer not to get to tied up with schedules etc but maybe she needs a bit more help with knowing when to have a sleep?? We haven't tried the ebm again yet - I've not been well so its just managing the feeds has been enough without expressing. Thanks for the link though - I will have a look and maybe order a bottle - must try to motivate self and dp to sort this out so can have break and maybe few hours uninterrupted sleep!!

Hi Marytee. I haven't read all the thread, but your original post could be me!! My DS is almost 11weeks and he was feeding and feeding and never satisfied. He wouldn't sleep through the day at all and the only way I could get him to sleep at night was by giving him a bottle of expressed milk but expressing was very difficult too. It was a nightmare. Then all of a sudden one day last week, he started coming off the breast appearing to have had enough, napping through the day and generally being a completely different baby. The expressing just started happening too. I did nothing different at all to bring about this change - it just happened and I hope that it just happens to your wee one soon too.

Well done on getting this far and keep up the good work.

MB