4 days old and BF all night last night

[sleepingalot]

Any help/ advice please!!! My milk came in yesterday evening and it was like a green light was switched on for DD.

We are still not 100% with latching on & my nipples are sore and cracked in places and so latching is becoming rather toe-curling to say the least. She has been a regular 2-3hr feeder since she was born and feeds have varied from 10 mins to an hr but last night from about 6pm she wanted to constantly feed. She sometimes fell asleep on the breast but clamped down when I tried to take her off or if I did manage to get her down woke screaming and rooting again.

By 5.30 this morning I was in a bit of a state having had no sleep whatsoever. DH in slept in spare room as no point in both us being up all night. He took her from me and she was still rooting. He took her downstairs and got her to sleep - she still is now. And I managed to get an hr and feel much better for it.
I really want to continue to BF but am now worried that if she was feeding for so long is she getting enough? Also I don't know how many more nights like last night I can take.

Any help / advice would be gladly received. Was going to try n get some more sleep now but workmen have just started digging the road up outside!!

It's v. uncomfortable and exhausting for you - but hurrah for the all night feedathon :)

This is your baby dealing beautifully with the extra milk now available, and ensuring a generous production in the future. She is learning that she is loved, that her needs are responded to, and enjoying the closeness of being next to you. She's learning the world on the 'outside' is safe, that when she cries because she feels alone and confused, a pair of loving arms scoops her up and comforts her. For young babies, breastfeeding and breastmilk mean so much more than nutrition or 'getting enough' - yes, she was getting enough because you were feeding her when she needed it. The restaurant never runs out of food - it's there and is made in response to the customer's requests.

You may have other nights like that, or never ever again. You need to catch up on sleep and rest by whatever means, explore the benefits of safe co-sleeping...and speak to the midwife about the soreness so your positioning and attachment can be amended so it feels comfortable for you.

One option is to look at www.biologicalnurturing.com where these positions allow you to relax and the baby to self-attach.

Hope you have a lovely relaxed day today :)

Thank u so much for your reassurance- you made me cry. She's just waking again so toe curlers at the ready!

tiktok - beautifully put

Fab post Tiktok, i love reading your bf advice.

My DS did this at the same age, I phoned the maternity department because I got in such a state! They said that he was probably going through a growth spurt so was feeding so much to ensure supply. The next night he was back to 3 hourly.

Do you have family nearby? Could you take your DD and crash at their house today? Your DD is only 4 days old, it's likely that she will be up during the night more than during the day so it's really important that you get rest whever you possibly can.

I would give your MW a call if she isn't coming round today anyway and ask for details of your nearest breastfeeding clinic, or if your local PCT has breastfeeding support workers that will come out to your home. It is really worth checking your latch to make sure that you aren't getting sore unnecessarily.

For the soreness now, get some Lansinoh if you haven't already and apply generously to your nipples and areola and to your nursing pads. If you're using supermarket disposables, throw them out and get the Johnson & Johnson ones or Tommee Tippee. They are more expensive but well worth it. I also got a coule of pairs of Lanowool breastpads from the NCT to go between my breasts and the disposable breastpads. They don't look like much but they made a huge difference and the soreness cleared up within a couple of days of using them. My friend also used Tommee Tippee spun hydrogel pads, which she said were amazing. You can order them online or I've seen them in Boots, Mothercare and Babies R Us. Babies R Us quite often have them on sale for £1.99.

The first six weeks of BFing DS were an absolute nightmare and I can really see why people give up. It's definitely worth sticking with it though as it doesn't take long until you both get the hang of it and you will be able to just point her in the right direction and she does the rest :) It saves a lot of faff about not being able to go anywhere without taking bottles and powders too. My friends who bottle fed were always racing off home because they'd used their supplies, while I didn't need to worry about.

What a lovely post from tiktok. This is normal, it doesn't last for ever, in a few short weeks (which will fly by though it may not seem it on the bad days) you will have a magic moment when you realise you and your baby have finally cracked breastfeeding and it becomes an absolute doddle, and you will feel sorry for all those mums that have to faff with sterilisers and bottle feeding.

In the meantime, eat cake, have a glass of wine and get what support you can around you. Have you got friends and family who can cook you dinner? I didn't cook a meal for a couple of weeks after birth and could count on my hands the number of pooey nappies I changed in the first three months. This is the sort of support mums need to get through. The Asians have a lovely tradition of a new mum staying with her mum for 40 days. That might seem a bit extreme but the more support you can get for you, the better you will be able to survive those 'witching hour' breastfeeds that are such a struggle for all new mums.

Tiktokagree beautifully put. Sleeping I remember feeling totally and utterly exhausted and emotional on day 4 postnatal. My milk had come in, I had spent 2 nights constantly feeding, and I spent the whole day in my nightie in floods of tears but couldn't sleep even when Dh took Ds off me and told me to go to bed! Textbook baby blues, I literally felt like I was losing the plot.
But my lovely Midwife explained it was normal.

The next morning I was still knackered but my mental state was a lot more stable. It will get easier. Your baby is just behaving completely normally, wanting to suckle constantly especially at night will establish your milk supply. I found getting the air to my nipples helped and liberal application of lansinoh, but agree making sure the latch and positioning are correct are key.

look after yourself, drink plenty, eat lots, rest when you can and snuggle your lovely newborn.

aah day 4 + BFing + milk just in + sore nipples + exhaustion

It's an exquisite torture if you don't know two things:

1. It will pass
2. It will pass because you're doing the feedathons now

Read and reread Tiktok's post. She is right. Nothing at all wrong, nothing you need to change about your baby's perfectly normal behaviour. But if you want to change what you're doing then brilliant, in the direction of making your life as easy as possible. I found those early days with dd absolutely shattering. I'm 5 weeks in with dc2 now and this time round my priority has been sleeping whenever and wherever I can. To that end, feeding lying down and co-sleeping safely has been my lifesaver. DH does the nappy changes, I lie there and ensure my baby is putting in his order for milk. And it means it will settle down. It might happen again when the next order goes in but it will settle again.

Get your latch checked and adjusted, apply lansinoh liberally and have 3 cakes.

And well done!!

I'm in exactly the same position - just spent the last two nights feeding constantly. I just wanted to know if anyone had advice about when dd fusses and squeals at my breast? She seems to get really angry and flails about with her fists, frantically rooting about to be latched on again, only to repeat the same thing when I do. It's so hard to get the latch right when she does this. The midwives in the hospital told me her latch was perfect and bf seemed to be going really well for the first 3 days. It's gone massively down hill since then and sleep deprivation plus looking after my 2 year old ds is making life very difficult.

Any advice? Is she getting enough milk? She's done three dirty nappies in the last 24 hours so it looks like she is, although the last one was greenyblack whereas the others were brown.

petaluma - ignore the midwives, most of them don't have specialist breastfeeding training, and find yourself someone who does have specialist training.

I know it's really tiring but if the latch is wrong, take baby off by slipping your finger in the side to release the pressure, and relatch. You probably won't bother during the night feeds as you're too tired, but for daytime feeds keep doing it until you get latch right as it's so important.

Dirty nappies all sound fine. Greeny black is normal for breastfed babies.

petaluma - you could take a look at the biological nurturing link I posted, as it could help you, too :)

It sometimes happens that new babies get themselves into a bit of a state - they want to feed, they are driven to feed, they are desperate to feed....but they lack the 'organisation' to know they will latch on more easily if they calm down. So they get cross. And when they get cross they find it even harder to latch on.

A good way to avoid this is to keep your baby close and watch for very early feeding cues, so you can respond by placing her in the right position to latch on before she even realises she is desperate :) It won't always work but it will sometimes help...and in any case as she gets older and bigger she will work a lot more out for herself and calm down. The self-attachment described in the biological nurturing link helps with this, too.

Greenish black nappies are normal for a baby a few days old - they start changing to yellow from day 4-5 onwards.

Thank you so much. I'll take a look at that website.

When can I expect that it might get a bit easier? 6 weeks maybe? I can't be a stay at home hermit for much longer because of my very active toddler ds but I just can't see a point when we can all get dressed and be able to go out without me having to feed the whole time. I've got a bit of help but not for much longer. Ds is a bit of handful when out so I'd have to watch him like a hawk so we're pretty limited at the moment. I just don't feel like this constant feeding is normal!

I did bf ds1 but it was very different (mostly expressed) as he had a problem with his mouth so although I remember the long nights, I still feel a total novice.

Thanks for your support

petaluma - you're getting ahead of yourself :) Your baby is 4 or 5 days old I'm guessing from your posts.

Constant feeding and all-nighters are normal and even welcome in the first week or so. This pattern does not last.

Thanks Tiktok, spot on. DD is 6 days today. Not used to feeling this out of control IYSWIM!

I'll chill out and put my feet up. Thank goodness for Peppa Pig!

petaluma - both my boys were screamers at the breast, they got so angry! With DS2 I thought 'oh god here we go again', and at day 6/7 was really down about it.
When he was 15 days old I went out to lunch with my Mum and my toddler, DS2 slept in his pram and then I fed him in the restaurant and no-one even noticed :)

It will pass, hang in there. :)

Remember, the reason she is feeding all the time is not cos she's not getting enough and you are maiming her for life! It is because she is stimulating your supply.

It's a normal pattern. They don't feed much after birth as they are recovering. Then a few days in, whoomph!

She may also be a baby like my DD was, who for the first few weeks just doesn't want you to put her down on her own!

It's hard, but it won't last forever. Keep her by you, lie down in bed as much as you can even if you can't sleep, let her feed as often as she wants. And grab whatever sleep you can! Just sit on the sofa, watch DVDs and just hold and feed your baby. Everything else can go on hold for a bit!

If its any consolation by two months or so things will be quite different. You're in the "newborn fog" stage at the moment but it does lift.

Im 39 weeks with DC2 now and suddenly terrified of doing it all again!

Just in case anyone missed tiktok's wonderful post:

This is your baby dealing beautifully with the extra milk now available, and ensuring a generous production in the future. She is learning that she is loved, that her needs are responded to, and enjoying the closeness of being next to you. She's learning the world on the 'outside' is safe, that when she cries because she feels alone and confused, a pair of loving arms scoops her up and comforts her. For young babies, breastfeeding and breastmilk mean so much more than nutrition or 'getting enough' - yes, she was getting enough because you were feeding her when she needed it. The restaurant never runs out of food - it's there and is made in response to the customer's requests.

OP are you co-sleeping? Sitting uop all night would exhaust anyone!

We found that after the second week of fully breastfeeding things got much easier and by week 4 the latching on toe curling moments had also subsided.

Some things we have learnt over the last 5 months (still EBF):

1. Lansinoh nipple cream and breast pads are well worth the money.
2. Poo can be any colour and any consistency and is still classed as normal, except really vile green. (We thought we had diarrhea after 2 days of explosive out the nappy and all up the back ones, but no, thats fine!)
3. Very young babies need reassurance that everything is ok, nothing else comes close to doing this than BFing.
4. Feeding can happen anywhere/anytime (we feed on demand). Don't ever expect to make an appointment on time!
5. tiktok writes excellent reassuring advice.
6. Just because it worked for someone else, doesn't mean it'll work for you!! Follow your own instinct, adapt to your own needs.
7. No one thinks they are doing a good job, BUT everyone is doing fantastically.

Keep with it if you can, and if you can't don't think you have failed in any way. You need to do what is right for yourself, then you will always make the right decision for your loved one too.

It usually takes a few moments - even up to a minute - for your milk to 'let down' (start coming through quite quickly and strongly), and if your baby's hungry, it can be a bit frustrating to have to keep sucking whilst not getting the big mouthful he wants. Speak to him/her gently, encourage them (and yourself!) to keep calm, and your milk will arrive in the quantities they're after v soon. And they learn that too.

I agree with tktok - offer your breast before they get really hungry, to avoid having to latch on in a tizzy, which isn't best either for you or them.

I've only just managed - with my fifth bf child - to master the art of feeding lying down, and I am a total convert, and would recommend EVERYONE to persevere in finding a position that is comfy for you; it is so much more restful for you to lie down whewnever you can, rather than just sit holding them Good luck!

Thank u so much for all the advice tiktok and everyone else it really does help.

We have persevered through today with still v little sleep but tried (tentatively) co sleeping and slept for about 40 mins. Lots of skin to skin and lansinoh has helped.

We don't have family anywhere near but have been in touch with BF advice and she is going to call on us tomorrow.

It also helps to know that others have been through it and come through the other side with positive results. Also feelmywraithis right - the dreaded hormones racing round at this stage.

Petaluma it sounds as though were in the same boat as i also have a 21 month old - I expressed with him for first 6 wks as he was quite poorly when born so BF our DD is pretty much all new for me.

I'd like to try the lying down position but can't seem to get the hang of that one.
DD very content at mo- skin to skin asleep. May try another nap! Thanks again for all advice - I may be back at 3 in the morning!!!

It took me ages to learn to feed dd lying down. This time round I've started feeding lying down from day one. I had two ways of doing it at first. One, having his head on the top part of my arm with my arm wrapped around him, facing each other. So the top of my arm is like a pillow for him iyswim and I hold him nice and still so he doesn't slip off or feel insecure. The other thing that has worked is to start feeding sitting up with him on a pillow, fairly high up and once we're into the feed, keep him latched and move the pillow out gently, turn him round to lie against me instead of across me, whilst I lie down on my side.

Now he's bigger he can latch himself on effectively in the night and doesn't need to be held closely while he does it, or his arms moved so he isn't sucking them instead.

Just wondered OP how you are getting on? I've had a tough couple of nights where dd has angrily fed constantly through the evening to around 4 am. She ll sleep in my arms but as soon as I try to put her down the whole thing starts again.

I cant get her to stay latched on when lying down and although the biological nurturing technique has worked a couple of times, she is too fighty during the night for it to be a solution. tiktok any further advice??? I'm so so tired I now don't know what else to do

:(

petaluma, not surprising you feel tired and rough :(

Why do you say your baby feeds 'angrily'? Tiny babies don't get angry when they feed - they can feed enthusiastically, yes :) She sleeps in your arms but objects when put down to settle/sleep....yes, normal, yes, exhausting, yes, you need as much help and support as you can get to rest in the day and sleep when you can.

Maybe work on the co-sleeping positions so you can find a position that allows you to be comfortable with her side by side, if you find BN not that useful at night?

This is a difficult time - no getting away from it :(

Petal I know just what you mean about angry feeding, it is frustration - mine were both like it.
I found that switching sides regularly helped, partly because it will help to increase supply.
Can your DH take her and calm her for you, and then you can try again?

This will pass so soon, it really will. In the meantime you need to sleep whenever you can. Do you have support to enable you to do that?

Thanks so much for your comments advice. I suppose angry is not the word - maybe frustrated, voracious and growing?!

I built a kind of nest last night so I could doze more comfortably which was a little better but lying down was a disaster as dd kept latching off . She's much more comfy when I sit up .

I'll keep persevering! Thanks again