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Infant feeding

Get advice and support with infant feeding from other users here.

Original poster

Please could you confirm this is wrong.

32 replies

dingdongmeggymooonhigh · 07/12/2005 09:01

Hi friends of mine have a 9 week old baby boy. He didn't take to breast feeding at all and would not latch on. H elost so much weight they were told at the hospital he should be put on formula.
When he was about 3 weeks old they had a terrible time with colic and about 30 minutes after being fed he would SCREAM! This continued all day and the couple were in such a state they tried everything, all of the usual rememdies. My dh told me that the only thing they had been successful with was a goats milk formula or so we thought but it turns out that they are giving him warmed goats milk from the carton.

I'm sure this doesn't contain the right nutrients for their ds and I have suggested they speak to a health visitor or dietitian to get qualified advice but because I wasn't exactly sure what the milk was "missing" I didn't like to push it. They've said he's brilliant on the milk and they are not going back to formula!

Is it lacking iron and essential vitamins, I want to be sure before I suggest she changes his diet.

OP posts:
Original poster
dingdongmeggymooonhigh · 07/12/2005 09:23

.

OP posts:
Helen38 · 07/12/2005 09:34

I'm sure you are right, that would worry me too, afraid I don't know much about it as I b/f but I do know they do stuff to formula to make it ok for babies, you wouldn't give a baby normal cows milk would you? You can get goats milk forula, try to get them to talk to hv, is he putting on weight?

crossedfingers · 07/12/2005 09:34

From what I remember it has too little iron and too much sodium. I am sure he shouldn't be on cartoned stuff at this young age.

Feistybird · 07/12/2005 09:34

Doesn't sound right at all.

Roobietherednosedreindeer · 07/12/2005 09:36

Wasn't there some bad press about goats milk formula recently? Agree it seems wrong that he should be on pure goats milk.

Original poster
dingdongmeggymooonhigh · 07/12/2005 09:36

No he isn't gaining any weight he just doesn't look bonnie at all.

OP posts:
RosiePosie · 07/12/2005 09:37

Goat's milk is more digestible than cows milk, and in the past, babies who were not breastfed have been fed on goat's milk more successfully than cows milk. However, you're right - for a nine week old baby, in this day and age it's pretty shocking. It is lacking in the essential nutrients he needs at this stage. There is however a goats milk formula on the market which I used for me dd. I bought it from www.goodnessdirect.co.uk. It is expensive, but in extreme circumstances some GP's will prescibe it. I moved my dd onto normal goats milk at 9 months. I was mix feeding though - mainly breastfeeding with only one or two bottles of formula a day. It's called Nanny's, btw

Roobietherednosedreindeer · 07/12/2005 09:40

This what I read here

Original poster
dingdongmeggymooonhigh · 07/12/2005 09:41

Yes I know about the Nanny formula as my SIL uses it with her dd. I have told my friend this and that is what I thought she was using but dh said her dh said they couldn't find the goats milk formula anywhere so used the fresh instead and he is much better on it i.e. not crying.

Could he end up being very malnourished on what he's on? Dh says there's no telling them

OP posts:
AwayInAMunker · 07/12/2005 09:42

This is about unpasteurised goats milk, but the vitamin content is the same as pasteurised, I'd imagine. They need to know this IMO.

"Unpasteurized goat's milk is a poor substitute for breast milk or formula. Goat's milk is low in Vitamin D and it is also low in iron, Vitamin B12 and folate, which can lead to an iron deficiency or megaloblastic anemia (low blood counts). Goat's milk is also very susceptible to brucellosis, a bacterial infection in animals that can be passed on to your infant.
If you are going to feed your infant goat's milk, make sure that you use a commercially prepared pasteurized form or boil it yourself. You will also need to give vitamin supplements to ensure that your child is getting enough iron, Vitamin B12 and folate.

For children with an allergy to milk proteins or lactose and who can not breast feed or tolerate a cow's milk based formula, a better alternative to goat's milk would be a soy formula (like Isomil or Prosobee) or an elemental formula (such as Nutramigen, Alimentum, or Pregestamil)."

From this site here

moondog · 07/12/2005 09:42

Doesn't sound right at all.
Formula is a modified version of regular milk-they do loads of weird things to it to get it to approximate breastmilk.

I would be worried tbh..very worried.

AwayInAMunker · 07/12/2005 09:43

To have taken this decision without professional guidance is stupid in the extreme, also IMO.

Original poster
dingdongmeggymooonhigh · 07/12/2005 09:46

In a strange twist they are refusing to give any soy based product as they are worried about the recent bad press. We are seeing them together this weekend and I will say something but I'm not looking forward to it as dh has been getting ear ache from her dh at work since I told him to mention it!

OP posts:
Original poster
dingdongmeggymooonhigh · 07/12/2005 09:46

Yes that's what I think Munker.

OP posts:
FrostyTheGloworm · 07/12/2005 09:48

just wanted to add to what posisrosie said, I have a degree in Nutrition and agree that goats milk does not contain enough nutrients for a baby, it can be used as main milk drink from 12 months, but not before.
The other problem is that it contains too much sodium (ie. salt).

None of these problems exist with "Nanny formula" as it has all the nutrients a baby needs added to it, and lower sodium levels. It is more easily digested than some other formulas, although it is more expensive.

FrostyTheGloworm · 07/12/2005 09:52

if she wants to use Nanny she will probably have to go to a health shop, I dont think holland and barrett do it, but most good health shop either stock it or will get it in for her.
not that this helps her, but in my health shop I give people a 5% discout if they buy a case of 6 tins. she could ask in her local health shop.

AwayInAMunker · 07/12/2005 09:52

A bit more here

The more I think about this, the more stupid I think they are. Poor baby

How will you approach talking to them? Toughie!

Original poster
dingdongmeggymooonhigh · 07/12/2005 09:56

Oh blimey I really don't know. I think they haven't sought any professional advice as they were both so disappointed with their HV who basically said "tough luck you've got a high maintenance baby, you'll have to live with it!"

There are very defensive about him. I may go stuff I have read on these posts and suggest they look on line. I just know they're going to be funny about it - sham, they're a lovely couple, if perhaps a bit demented from sleep depravation.

OP posts:
LIZS · 07/12/2005 10:05

Difficult one. Perhaps tackle it slightly differently. Ratehr than all out ciriticse their "decision" suggest that they may need to get a vitamin supplement prescribed as goats'milk is very low in Vit D for example which used to cause rickets in the olden days and is essential for healthy bone and tooth growth. Sunlight is a natural source but in winter especially it is very hard to expose a baby long enough to get sufficient (in some countries supplemetns are standard). If you can sow a specific doubt in their minds, but without stating that they are wrong, warranting a trip to gp to discuss the feeding then they will get a medicial opinion on what they are doing. It sort of detaches you from it iyswim. Only trouble is they may still not admit to dr that they are usuing regular goats milk and not formula.

hth

FrostyTheGloworm · 07/12/2005 10:10

could you print out some of the info you have discovered online and on this thread and show it to her?

Maybe you could also find out where Nanny or soya formulas are available in her area?

LynnC · 07/12/2005 10:21

Dont know enough about the milk but thought I'd mention about the colic incase this is something they havent tried. I had similar situation with dd and nothing helped until doctor subscribed colysynthisis crystals (not sure if spelt correctly??) They worked wonders and can just order them at chemist without prescription. Good luck approaching your friends, hopefully they will see sense and at least consult their hv.

Epiffany · 07/12/2005 10:24

Can you ring their HV Meggy?
This baby could suffer serious problems if it is not put on proper formula soon.
As the mother of a dd who needed serious supplementation as fail to thrive infact - the legacy of poor nutrition is huge.

tiktok · 07/12/2005 10:40

They've been massively let down by the healthcare profs, so no wonder they want to go it alone. To be told to put the baby on formula instead of being given the option to fix the breastfeeding is a poor show.

It is not too late to relactate, if they are interested.

The formula industry has done a very good job in making everyone paranoid about giving non-formula milk, but the main difference between non-formula and formula milk is the tough protein in non-formula, which is skimmed milk with the protein 'modified' to make it easier to break down. They then add extra vitamins (principally A & D because they have been removed when the fat was skimmed off ) and various other bits and bobs of lesser nutritional importance.

Babies who were not breastfed before the invention of cheap formula (only about 50 years ago) were given diluted doorstep or evaporated milk (which reduced the protein and fat content, obviously) with added sugar. This was certainly not as good as formula, but it is probably not as bad as the manufacturers would like us to believe (my opinion only - I have no specialist quals in nutrition, and would be interested to see what those who do have these think about this).

Goats milk is higher in sodium, which for a baby of just nine weeks would be a concern, and they really do need to consult someone who knows about these things to see if they should be diluting it, if they are determined to continue using it.

As a layperson, this would be my concern, rather than the ingredients it might be missing. Too much sodium can make babies ill.

tiktok · 07/12/2005 10:41

They've been massively let down by the healthcare profs, so no wonder they want to go it alone. To be told to put the baby on formula instead of being given the option to fix the breastfeeding is a poor show.

It is not too late to relactate, if they are interested.

The formula industry has done a very good job in making everyone paranoid about giving non-formula milk, but the main difference between non-formula and formula milk is the tough protein in non-formula, which is skimmed milk with the protein 'modified' to make it easier to break down. They then add extra vitamins (principally A & D because they have been removed when the fat was skimmed off ) and various other bits and bobs of lesser nutritional importance.

Babies who were not breastfed before the invention of cheap formula (only about 50 years ago) were given diluted doorstep or evaporated milk (which reduced the protein and fat content, obviously) with added sugar. This was certainly not as good as formula, but it is probably not as bad as the manufacturers would like us to believe (my opinion only - I have no specialist quals in nutrition, and would be interested to see what those who do have these think about this).

Goats milk is higher in sodium, which for a baby of just nine weeks would be a concern, and they really do need to consult someone who knows about these things to see if they should be diluting it, if they are determined to continue using it.

As a layperson, this would be my concern, rather than the ingredients it might be missing. Too much sodium can make babies ill.

tiktok · 07/12/2005 10:41

whoops...sorry.