why has my month old 'unlearned' how to latch??

[pogface]

My now month old son has developed a worrying inability to suck properly - he loses suction again and again, each time losing a bit more nipple til he's right on the tip (v painful) or he comes off completely. i can hear and feel all the air he's swallowing and he has loads of trapped wind as a result (which he refuses to burp up)
he didnt do this in the beginning and some feeds are worse than others, though it doesnt seem to be anything i'm doing,and i cant work out why its happening. ive tried expressing first and feeding him when hungry/not hungry. any suggestions??

Is it worth havign your positioning checked by a BFC ? Now that he has grown a bit and can support his head better it may be psosible that you need to adjust your regular position. If it is the position and his poor latch continues you could suddenly find him becoming less satisfied and risk you getting blocked ducts or even mastitis.

i have to support his head cos he's rubbish at finding the nipple - he doesnt seem to see it and goes for his hands everytime; plus he doesnt open his mouth wide so its a bit of a wrestling match trying to force his mouth onto my nipple at the right moment and then breaking his latch when it becomes too painful. he also doesnt feed for more than 10 minutes, possibly cos his tummy fills up with air.

Definitely worth getting the position and latch checked then, you should n't need to manipulate him to that extent and probably isn't comfy or relaxed for either of you. Do you know of a BFC or some areas have breastfeeding support groups ?Has he been checked for tongue tie and thrush as that could make feeding uncomfortable for him.

good suggestions. thanks. i'll see if i can find a counsellor.

Just seen your other thread. fwiw I'd say small feeds at 3 hourly intervals (maximum) with dozes in between are pretty normal , if tiring for you, at his age. Offer him a feed when he roots, his tummy is still very small and if he is taking in air too he needs to refill it frequently.

Hopefully one of the midwives/bfc's on here will spot this thread soon and offer more specific advice.

I would go see a BFC. Not sure how much the lovely midwives/bfcs on here will be able to do, without seeing his latch.

Where are you located, vaguely? We might be able to find you a baby cafe or similar.

Alternatively, you can try calling the BFN/LLL/NCT/ABM, and see who's got counsellors near you.

could you try gently pushing between his shoulders, this pushes his head up slightly, moving his nose away from your breast and givng him better access. worth a go.

If my DS is very hungry he doesn't open his mouth well and also comes on & off the breast a lot. So perhaps try feeding him more often when he isn't really hungry so you can both take your time a bit more with the latch.

thanks for all the advice. have to say, his latch has got even worse in the last couple of days
but i am not stressing too much yet cos he has a cold, im hoping thats the cause. i do find it so stressful cos i know all that air is going to cause him pain. i am in south london, NotQuiteCockney, in Forest Hill. I will try and sort out seeing a counsellor - i just feel kind of pessimistic that they will be able to solve this because TBH, he takes in air and loses suction even when he has a good latch (ie, one that looks right, doesnt hurt, etc).

pog - I can't help feeling this issue is connected with the situation you describe on the other thread....trying to keep your baby feeding at scheduled intervals, and feeding him after he has been crying and rooting for a while.

Crying can be a late sign of hunger in a newborn, and this in itself can cause the baby to take in lots of air.

On the other hand, feeling and hearing wind in a baby's tummy is miselading. If you put your ear to anyone's tummy you will hear all sorts of gurglings and whooshings, and the natural contractions of the internal organs can make tummies feel hard, without it necessarily being a sign of uncomfortable wind.

Lots of skin to skin contact, and practice at feeding when your son is not crying, encourages happy latching and happy feeding.

There is no point in expressing, as far as I can see for this; however, maybe you are showing signs of over supply, which can sometimes mean a baby gets overwhelmed with the let down, and pulls off to try and cope.

Try going with the flow for a few days and seeing if it makes a difference

You could try feeding lying down. It wont solve the problem long term (unless you're willing to lie down on a park bench to feed!) but I find my DD feeds a lot better lying down. I think it helps with wind, at least it does for my DD.

aaargh! im really starting to regret that other thread..everyone seems to be getting the wrong end of the stick
I dont force him to go 3 hours, and he almost never cries with hunger - the 3 hours is his own usual timing, he is naturally very regular....honestly most feeds start when he's not upset, and the suction problems happen whether he's upset or not. having said that, i stand by what i said about him rooting for a short while when he has a tummy pain - when it passes he stops immediately, and if he has a dummy he spits it out. if he's really hungry, he wouldnt even take a dummy to start with. sometimes he just wants to suck, not to drink - i really don"t think putting milk into a sore tummy is always the right reaction.
elf, thank u for the advice. i have tried lying down; didnt seem to help, but i'll give it another go.
P xx

tiktok knows her stuff, pogface.

I'm not sure dummies help with bf. Why not let your baby suck as often as he likes, whether or not he's officially "hungry"? It will help his latch, help his supply. He was in you until pretty recently, he's going to be happiest on you as much as possible.

because its painful.. feeding is one thing but sore nipples make feeding time miserable for both of us. im not being selfish, im being sensible about what is going to allow me to continue breastfeeding, and him to feed comfortably without a stressed mummy. plus its just not practical for me to be sticking him on the breast whenever and wherever - i do leave the house sometimes! nevertheless i understand where youre coming from - i do aim to make my baby feel secure and comfy - i carry him, dont use a pram, and keep him with me almost all the time except for nights when he's in a basket by our bed.

If it is painful I'd suggest seeing a bfc - did you manage to locate one - to help with the latch and position.

As LIZS says, if it's painful, go see a bfc. Sore nipples are a sign of bad latch.

I think Lewisham Hospital does some drop ins. Otherwise, I'd phone the LLL/ABM/NCT/BFN folks, and see who's got something happening close to you ...

went to a b'f support group w midwives yesterday, got told, oh, youre doing fine, just use a pillow (which of course i do), look, he's feeding fine, just relax and enjoy your baby.
guess i'll try nct/ll next but thats somewhat dented my optimism...

this was at lewisham hospital, btw!

Midwives are n't always the best source of advice on Breastfeeding unfortunately. Hope you feel more confident and comfortable with it soon.

pog, I think you can understand why we thought you were letting him cry and root without feeding....that is precisely what you said you were doing!!

You now say you have sore nipples and honestly, I don't care what any midwife has said to you, this is not normal, and does not mean you have to use a pillow and get on with it.

Sore nipples and a baby who unlatches can mean one thing only - less than optimal feeding attachment. You need another opinion from someone who will work with you and do more than make bland reassuring noises

I also think you may have over-supply issues, in addition - see other thread.

Hope things get better.

And there is no 'of course' about pillows....they can certainly interfere with good attachment, and they can certainly get in the way of convenient feeding

Pogface, I hope things have gotten a little better. My DD has a bad case of Bronchiolitis at the moment and is really struggling to feed and it's very frustrating for the both of us, so I do sympathise.
Just a qucik question - when your son comes off when feeding, does he shake his head from back to front with his mouth quite near your nipple?

My wonderful Canadain HV told me that once you have let down your milk, the baby instinctively relaxes......... and their head drops back a bit. So you have to make a concerted effort to keep them propped on. However, she said you must never prop them on with their head, as it pushes the head down and closes the airway. Guide them from the back of the neck.

DS was a master at this, and still is. If I don't pay attention, he 'nibbles' his way back up the nipple until he's got a good latch again.

Good luck - I found the positioning really hard, and I used to get really anxious about it. Once their mouths get bigger, I think it's a lot easier.

Mine was a month old and when I gave him a dummy he had real trouble latching on quite a few times afterwards. I did some research and it takes 40 muscles to suck on a nipple but only 4 for a dummy - maybe you should keep the dummy away for a while and see if it helps. And also bottles. While some babies seem to be fine with those - others like mine aren't - and maybe yours is one of those!

My community nurse says boys are notoriously bad at latching on!

Your description of what he does sounds very similar to mine actually. My ds is always finding his hands or my elbow rather than the nipple - and it often takes quite a few repositionings before I get him in the right place cos he keeps moving his head the wrong way! And I also have the wrestling match cos he only opens his mouth for a v. short amount of time so I have to wham him on there quick! and then take him off if he does it wrong. I just keep waiting until its wide enough, and if it goes on wrong then take it off and try again, otherwise it would be bad for the nipples. He also stops after 10 mins with a lot of air, but then I burp him and he will usually start again. Have you tried burping him mid-feed?

The other thing that I find helps is making sure I've really got his head supported well, and watching to see if he loses the nipple, then if his head starts creeping back I just pull the head harder towards me and he usually gets it back in his mouth again.

Oh my gosh Beartime that sounds EXACTLY like jem - especially the finding his hands and it being a wrestling match where your timing has to be perfect!!!
i phoned La Leche and i think i kind of frustrated the counsellor cos most of what she suggested, id tried. I am now trying to express lots before a feed and feed leaning back, and feeding him often enough that he's really not that hungry...just started that this evening. if you have any more tips on how you handled yours, pls let me know. I have been burping mid feed, but its a fine line between relievng his discomfort and stressing him out by breaking his feed, which i do often cos his latch becomes rubbish and painful. sigh.