3 week old started fussing & tongue thrusting; pain halfway through feed

[SarahD73]

Hi everyone, wondering if anyone can give me some advice please (first time on Mumsnet!). My (almost) 3 week old DS has been exclusively bf; my milk came in on day 2 & he's had a very random pattern of anything from 3 hours to 25 mins between feeds - more good nights than bad but still not going longer than about 2.5 hours between feeds at night. I had very sore nipples initially but everyone was saying his latch was good & they just needed to toughen up, which they did about a week ago.

Now he's started having strange little fractious fits now and again - once or twice a day/night for the last few days - where he gets really agitated just as I'm trying to latch him on, keeps thrusting his tongue out and flailing about. It takes several goes to get him to latch on, and there doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason as to what makes him finally latch. Then once he's got going, he'll feed quite well for about 5 minutes, then something seems to change and he starts sucking the nipple really far back into his mouth so that it gets elongated and REALLY hurts. I spoke to a bf counsellor by phone who gave me some tips for the tongue thrusting (stroking his cheek, putting my finger in his mouth) which sometimes works and sometimes doesn't. Starting to get a bit worn out by it all - anyone got any tips/suggestions please?

SarahD - <a class="break-all" href="http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?q=breast+nipple+mouth+baby&hl=en&sa=X&tbm=isch&tbnid=8kWFWyzQebsjdM:&imgrefurl=www.revolutionhealth.com/articles%253Fid%253Dtx1042&docid=PzA_kozpB-OKqM&w=460&h=300&ei=tFY2Tte6MpO38gOo8ZmhDg&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=159&vpy=118&dur=528&hovh=179&hovw=275&tx=60&ty=88&page=1&tbnh=138&tbnw=211&start=0&ndsp=8&ved=1t:429,r:0,s:0&biw=1024&bih=485" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">the nipple should be really far back in his mouth. It needs to hit where the hard and soft palate meet (run your finger over the top of his mouth - your nipple needs to reach the bit where the palate changes from hard bone to soft skin - really far back into the mouth).

Do you have flat/inverted nipples (if I may be so bold ) as it can hurt when a baby draws out a flat or inverted nipple (not always but it can). If baby has been latching quite shallowly up until now and is just starting to latch deeply you would be experiencing some pain.

Does the pain last the whole feed or just 30 seconds or so? What shape does your nipple have when baby has finished feeding? Is it nipple shaped but longer/bigger or like a lipstick/bullet shape, is there a ridge around the nipple or does the nipple look like an orthodontic teat/dummy?

Thanks for the replies - TruthSweet no I don't have flat or inverted nipples; the nipple looks lipstick/bullet shaped when he comes off (that's a really good description!). The pain kicks in about halfway through him feeding - I don't see him make any visible signs of changing his mouth shape but it does seem that he's not opening his mouth wide enough to get a good big mouthful like he did for the first couple of weeks.

The HV came yesterday and suggested that it may well be wind that's just started - think this probably makes sense as he's now fractious a lot of the time and hates being laid down to sleep, will mostly only sleep on me - sigh!

Hi Sarah

There's some really good info about this sort of thing here My 6 week old often is like this and it is usually wind!

Sarah - If the nipple is lipstick shaped, that is happening because the nipple is being compressed against the hard palate by baby's tongue, this can cause pain during feeding.

How many feeds a day and how many wet and poo-y nappies do you get a day (cloth or disposable?)?

Is there anyway you can get to a bfing drop-in/group soon? Or phone one of the Bfing Helplines to talk through what is happening with baby and you as I'm not sure that baby having wind would explain all of the things you are describing (it definitely doesn't explain lipstick nipples!).