Breastfeeding - Questions, questions - again! (sorry)

[Helenemjay]

Can you explain the let down to me? i thought i knew but im beggining to think i dont!
And, why has my dd (11 weeks) started to bite me when she is feeding? she was biting my poor boob so hard the other day when i was feeding her my eyes were bloody watering! {shock) i get the feeling she is trying to acheive something by it but i have no idea what?

Breast-fed DS grew first tooth at 5 and a half months. Now that really got my eyes watering!

Ooh! brrrr poor you 2happy!

What do you want to know about the let down? iirc i used to be able to feel it - a pulling sensation, but i'm sure that was only in the very early days.
Why do you ask? If its because you are wondering when to change sides, i just used to swap sides if dd had fidgeted, i'd offer her the other boob, sometimes she'd want it sometimes not.

The bite is probably just because your dd's teeth are beginning to move under the gums and she is feeling strange sensations which biting stops if you know what i mean. My dd went through stages of biting (i assume at times when gums were hurting), but it's not too bad. If you pull your dd away when she does it and say no in a firm voice then put her back to breast without any fuss, she should get the message. Be careful not to teach her that its an amusing game!
I fed my dd until she was 2 ( so a full mouth of teeth) and its not painful - as some people assume it would be. It really is only when they are teething that they have bite every now and then - or at least that was the case with my dd!

Thanks hattie! the reason i ask is because im aware of let down occuring sometimes half an hour after i have fed dd, if im in the middle of tesco's when im not even thinking about feeding dd, then all of a sudden let down is there, someone said the other day that it didnt make sense unless i was feeding dd, or she was due for a feed! so now im confused, and at 11 weeks i still find myself sitting for hours feeding dd continuosly and for her to only settle for very brief periods and then she starts to furiously root again !!, i have tried a dummy but she just spits it out and yells! im just a slave to breastfeeding!! and she doesnt sleep in the day anymore at all!!!!!!

I'm definitely no expert, but I know I let down all over the place and any time. I wondered if it was friction, baby noises, what I was thinking about, all sorts of things. In the early days it was so embarassing because I leaked everywhere (not as embarassing as visiting work and everyone being too polite to tell me that my breast pad had slipped and was poking out of my top... ), but it's much less bad now, just a tingle.
Do you mean that you feed dd every time you let down?

my dd would clamp down around this age. I guess it was the teeth sensation. She stopped doing it long before the teeth actually came thru. and she hasn't bitten since teeth came thru. Just unlatch her if it is uncomfortable then put her back on. 11/12 weeks is growth spurt time for babies. If you want to know when baby is actively feeding after a letdown, look at the way her jaw moves. When you first put her on, it is suck, suck, suck, suck, rather quickly and lightly. when she stimulates a letdown it is suck - pause (in order to swallow) - suck. these sucks are also slower and deeper. For me letdown usually happens within 30 secs to a minute. She may keep sucking for a while after extracting the bonus of that letdown and stimulate a second letdown.

hth

I once had letdown when I saw a tabloid headline about Britney Spears' boobs. That was a little weird.

Re: the biting, you can either remove the baby from the breast, briefly, or for a bit longer, or you can very briefly press her into the breast.

Helenemjay, when you say you are bf-ing dd for hours, is she actively sucking for all that time (as kiskidee describes, jaw action) or does she slow down until she is asleep?

I ask only because your dd sounded a lot like my dd when she was a baby . I also used to wonder a lot about let down. Basically my dd liked to fall asleep nursing and then sleep latched on. If I removed her when she seemed to stop sucking, she would cry and I would put her back on. I only realised later that she was not really hungry or still drinking, just wanted the comfort of boobie in her mouth in her sleep. Maybe your dd doesn't sleep in the day because she is getting her sleep at the breast.

Like your dd, she would never have anything to do with dummies or ... bottles for that matter.

Kellymom.com is a really good evidence based website for this sort of question. I know that you can 'condition' your let down response, so, say every time you feed dd you get a drink of water or put a red cushion on your knee, then eventually you will get a let down even without your dd feeding (i guess this is why people often get a let down when their baby cries, as crying usually precedes feeding) and this is really useful for expressing when away from your baby (why they suggest looking at a picture of your baby when expressing). Sorry the feeding is hard work...I'd def try ringing a breastfeeding counsellor or exploring the site I mentioned to get some ideas of what to try. HTH

My young man (4.5 months) used to try and nurse endlessly with eyes closed and barely slept in the day at 5 weeks. He sometimes bit as well. I started following the Baby Whisperer plan of eat, activity, sleep over a 2 hour cycle and bingo, sorted. Now he usually only feeds with good strong rhythm and eyes open. Trick was waking him up with interesting activity once he was over his milk-drunk following a feed.

In retrospect he was biting to stop flow (when he is actually feeding his tongue is under my nipple and he doesn't bite). I never get obvious let down, but it strikes me that yours may be because your baby isn't actually feeding while comforting on the breast so you've the ammunition there when out shopping? HTH

Wow you girls are fab! these are all really really interesting to read - i have to say though blueshoes your description of your dd is like my dd 100%!!!! its exactly what she does she will slepp for hours and hours with booby in her mouth, but the second i slowly take her off her eyes ping open and she yells!!! Im going to have to go and investigate this kellymom site! and merryberry whats this babywhisperer plan??? how does it work?? have spoken to my health visitor today who said that because i have 2 other children who keep me very busy i should consider giving her some formula at about 3pm as thats my busiest time of day and when my other 2 are here causing hell!! im not sure about this though has anyone else done this??? does it help?

Why would making up a bottle (boiling kettle, fishing bottle and teat out of steriliser, getting formula out, mixing, shaking, and then washing it and sterilising it afterwards) be easier than breastfeeding, Helen? Does your HV not understand that a bottle given to your baby might have a negative impact on your milk supply?

Just askin' !

Sounds daft to me Helen, what you need is a magic genie to fetch a kiddie from school etc for you, not an extra layer of work!

The baby whisperer, tracey hogg, was nurse with a mental handicap (as was called then) specialty who went on to apply what she had learnt of non-verbal communication to babies. Very skilled lady in many ways, what this muppetish first time mum took from her was to relax into a pattern with my baby based on his feeds. At that time they were every two hours, so he fed for 40 minutes, 'played' e.g watched me do stuff while I chatted to him for half an hour and then slept until his next feed. All through the day, for weeks and weeks. Made it easy to avoid what you and blueshoes mention, that sleeping at the boob thing and feeling you never can do anything.

You can get the baby whisperer from most libraries now, or google it on amazon. there is even a website i think.

I agree tiktok bottles are lots of hassle! i dont want to bottle feed but i really feel like im having trouble meeting her needs! i have to say i was surprised at her suggestion! dare i admit - i gave dd some formula (6 oz)at 3 and what is it now 4? and she is currently over my shoulder screaming her head off!!! a load of good that was eh???

Helen - I think the HV may have suggested it simpy to suggest something instead of listening to you and helping you decide among non-formula feeding options what might help.

Just feed your baby....and with practice you will be able to multi-task

It sounds to me that you are worried for a lot of the time that you won't meet your baby's needs - and you are scared when she cries to be on you/near you, as this is interpreted as not meeting her needs.

If you respond by keeping her close/on you, you will meet her needs....I promise. When she cries, she is not saying 'you can't meet my needs' she is saying 'you meet my needs so well, mummy, please do it more!'

tiktok that is a lovely post it made me cry
mind you i am post natal and sleep deprived....

Aww tiktok! thankyou!! i love the way you look at things like that! i have to say when she sleeps im terrified she going to wake up and start squawking, and when she is awake and squawking im wondering how long she going to squawk for - not a my greatest confession! so i guess you are right!
I think my constant desire for breastfeeding answers is a desperate attempt to get 'one up' on it! - like if i know enough then i will be able to handle it better and read dd cues better!

Helenemjay, the ladies here have given you great advice. As regards the HV bottle suggestion, the only reason I imagine the HV suggesting that is to fill up your dd so she is content and does not ask for a feed for a longer time. But as you found it, it is false economy when you add on the time of preparing bottles/formula, cleaning up and on top of that, your dd is screaming one hour later! It is a common misconception that bf-ing is about nutrition. From a baby's perspective (at least my dd's) it became increasingly more about comfort than nutrition as she got older - until we got to the boobie in the mouth stage for napping because of her teething.

Merryberry, I am totally in awe of you successfully putting your ds on the Baby Whisperer EASY routine (meaning Eat, Activity, Sleep, Your time). That book left me in tears because my dd was determined to march to the beat of her own drummer - she was a very poor sleeper, feeder and nursing addict. Her routine (as dictated by herself) was bf, sleep, activity, bf, sleep, bf/sleep, bf/sleep, bf, activity (in any order). If she wanted to sleep after a feed, she could not be woken up and once she was awake, could not settle without another bf. This falling asleep from awake thingy never happened for me - she was hysterical on her back in a cot within 3 seconds.

Helenemjay, I don't want to scare you. My dd is a bit of an extreme example. But I see a lot of myself in your descriptions - I was trying so hard to make life easier for myself by following advice from books/HV that I could not relax and enjoy baby. It was only after I threw all advice/warnings of bad habits and rods for my back to the wind that I finally was able to just go with the flow of my dd's eccentric demands.

There was a lot about dd's baby days which was very hard. But I will always take away with me the peace and calm of those long bf-ing/nap sessions where she lay in the crook of my arm, I had my feet up, and my other hand was surfing the net!

I am truly amazed you are able to juggle the demands of 2 other children with that of your cling monster. Perhaps a different tactic would need to be used after 3 pm. You are doing great - your dd is so special, she really is.

Oh thankyou blueshoes! you are so sweet! i agree on how alike our dd's sound! this morning i have decided that instead of feeding her on demand still and following her cues, she is going to follow mine!! i hate to be bossy with her already but its not working her way! for what its worth she only yelled at 4 last night for about 5 minutes and then she slept until 7.30pm!!!! it was wonderful - but i felt soooo guilty!

it was what he wanted, but i couldn't tell in my new mum daze!

Helenemjay, I'm so happy at your progress. I know you admitted to feeling guilty, but crying once at night for 5 minutes is only a grumble , not an "help, mummy has abandoned me, I am going to die alone" cry. Most definitely, go for it - claw back some of your sanity - now!