The 'breastapo!'

[twinklegreen]

so does anyone else feel their blood boil at the use of this phrase?? Also similar terms such as the breastfeeding mafia, breastfeeding nazi's.. Etc etc.

As far as I am aware, I sit in a room twice a week, try to keep my kids entertained, on the off chance that someone will walk through the door needing help. If they come I will do my best to help them, sometimes I don't think I said the right thing/didn't know enough, that is why when I get my three kids (5 and under to bed) I spend a few hours studying breastfeeding issues ( not every night! There is wine :o) Plus, spending hours and hours on admin for the local breastfeeding support group.

I give so many hours of unpaid labour, supporting the nhs, who quite frankly should be training midwives and health visitors better.

But at the end of the day if you manage to help one woman, give them the support needed to succeed, then it's worth it :)

That is why I get SO offended when we are called derogatory names, and especially likening us to the Gestapo the mafia! I am 100% certain that I have never masterminded mass genocide or taken innocent people's lives, nor have I ever even pushed my very strong views on anyone.

The way I see it is that if someone comes to a breastfeeding group they are coming for support with breastfeeding which we will give them, whole heartedly. Please do not judge us for being 'anti-formula' we are never going to say it's the best thing for your baby, because biologically it isn't! However if that is what you decide, we will respect that it is completely your choice, as a mother to make.

YES we really do believe 'breast is best' in fact we believe it is normal it is the benchmark to measure everything else upon, BUT please don't judge us for having strong views on the subject, if we didn't then we wouldn't be giving up our free time, putting our husbands/partners in a bad mood, doing lots of hours for no pay... On the off chance that when someone really needs us, we'll be there, with correct (up to date) information and a lot of support!

Ok, rant over :)

As I expressed in the other thread, I clearly do not like the terms, I feel these names are nasty, unhelpfull and designed to hurt women who selflessly dedicate themselves to helping others. I also see that they apear to help those who do feel bad for FF feel better about it and i understand it must be awfull to feel bad about your choice/need to formula feed, but bullying those who are trying to help is not the answer.
I give up a hell of a lot of my free time to support women that do want to bf. I am not pushy or judgemental of others but I too will not hold back information or my beliefs inorder to placate others if the topic comes up. 1 because my opinions and beliefs are just as valid as anyone elses there fore I do not have to hide them. 2 because I feel it is important that people are given correct information about BF, and FF. and 3 because I feel its important to bust the many myths and "booby traps" arround BF which are a massive contributing factor to why our rates are so low.
I have never beaten anyone up inorder to extort money, I have never murdered people, nor sent millions to death camps. I have never tortured or interigated anyone, so WHY do people feel it is apropriate and harmless to compare me and others to people who do/have done so?
A large part of why I personally feel strongly about these names is that I lost a huge group of friends over my feelings about breastfeeding. I was subtely bullied by them for years because I made parenting choices that did not chime with their own and it came to a head once I stopped silently taking it anymore. They threw all of the above names at me and a heck of a lot worse too! It had a deep and profound effect on many aspects of me and the way in which I live my life day to day. 2 years on the wounds still run deep.
I would like to ask why is it that as a society it is deemed acceptable to deride a mothers choice to bf, question her motives (your only doing it for yourself) make fun of her, call her nasty names and be agressive towards her,simply because she is a breastfeedig mother, yet for her to defend her choice, explain her motivations or exorsise her right not to be harrassed is looked upon as being an extreemist, as her being smug, judgemental and superior?

Twinkle thankyou for your hard work. They are horrible terms used as other posters have said because deep down many people who FF didn't really want to. We are all at our most defensive when standing on shaky ground
I FF my first DD, but she was utterly clueless about how to breast feed. Yes the midwives were, bar one, less than helpfull, but I think I would have had to live in your office to get anywhere at all. I didn't feel particularly guilty - we tried it made us both unhappy we gave up.
DD2 came along latched on second time we tried and feed well into primary school.
Neither I, DH or the DDs themselves have any hang ups about this, they are simply very different characters.

Thankyou to all the lovely posters that have said we made a difference to them, it really does mean alot :) startail We would be happy for you to have lived in our office, if someone need's intensive support, that is exactly what we are there for, and we don't mind a bit you on the other hand would have had to put up with my three rowdy delightful kids! Glad it went well second time round.

cocoachannel So sorry about your friend, that was very insensitive and rude of those people to speak like that.

I still don't think that it is 'ok' even in that situation to compare their behaviour to the people responsible for the holocaust and the murder of 6million Jews :(

The term 'breastapo' is pathethic imo & I feel that by using it, MK has actually damaged the opinions of breastfeeding further. I can't help thinking bf'ing Mums (myself included) may now face abuse when bf'ing in public in 'breastapo' related comments. :( To compare bf'ing with the gestapo is beyond stupid.

Newsflash for you MK - everyone who chooses to breastfeed does so for their child, not for the approval of others!

Also considering boycotting Top Gear after JC's idiotic comments but I think DP may have a breakdown...!

I am a Mummy who couldn't convince my DD to BF (massive vontouse head injury), the support I initially received was fantastic to try and get DD to take to the breast. I cannot fault it.

Although once I was a couple of weeks in and mixing EBM with FFing I was officially reprimanded by a nursery nurse for attending the HV group sessions on BF despite still wanting to try and get DD back on the breast. The leader and other Mums there had no issue as they knew I wanted to BF. However I was not allowed to attend. I was recently told by a 2nd time Mum this also happened to her.

There were strong medical reasons for the formula in the beginning before my milk came in (to avoid a blood transfusion and to be fair it worked). I never come across any person actively involved in supporting breast feeding who was less than lovely to me in my sobbing, blubbering state that I was.

No one bitched to me about using formula in addition to the tiny amounts of EBM I could give. Except horrible Mums I did not know from Adam who for some reason felt they could walk up to me and tut (in front of my DH thank goodness so he knew I wasn't just paranoid). But never ever a person dedicating time and energy to help Mums to BF. Never. You don't deserve the abuse at all. A minority of ill informed ladies ruin it for you all. It is a real shame.

Thank you to anyone who tried so hard to help us. I'll be back soon to try and crack it with number 2!!!

Katie . How awful AND completely inappropriate. How dare she stop mums who want to get back to fully ebf from accessing help. I would complain if I were you!

I think the derogatory terms are aimed at mums coming out with crap like 'bottle feeding is child abuse' not people who are supporting women who wish to breastfeed.

Just wanted to add my thanks to you, and all the other people out there like who, who devote their time, support, compassion, and not least of all, expertise to support parents through breast feeding. Without people like you I would not be still feeding, and I was absolutely passionate about breast feeding and thought I was utterly determined. I even thought I knew it wasn't always easy, little did I actually know about just how hard it can be for some.

It took 5 days before my DS would feed from me after his first feed just after birth, and 12 weeks till we were able to feed pain free, with lots of nasty bits in between! Fortunately the midwives and BF counsellors in the hospital were great and got me hand expressing and syringe feeding and were fantastically supportive. The LLL L I spoke to was fantastic and so patient. I couldn't have got there without her. The HV who told me I should be topping up, and the GP who told me my breasts would not heal if I didn't give up feeding were not helpful. It is such a shame they are not more knowledgeable. And such a shame BF support workers often feel they can not say what they really think for fear of how others will judge them. I'm sure BF cousellors I saw thought that advice sucked and that I should not top up, but didn't say it and I guess didn't feel they could contradict that advice. I did have the confidence to ignore it, but only because of the support I got else where. For some it would work, but I just don't think I'd have kept the BF up if I'd ended up topping up with formula.

DS is now nearly 11 months and we have no intention to stop any time soon.

TheRealMBJ - it is still happening today, my friend was bounced just some weeks ago. No matter what your cirumstances if you are not "actively BFing" you cannot attend our HV organised BF support group around here. Pretty tough when little one won't go near!

I was such an emotional wreck I just took it as another sign I wasn't a good enought Mum to be included! This time - all guns will be ablazing!

I will fight tooth and nail for much better support from the HVs and be allowed access to BFing support. To be honest they will be sick of the sight of me, DD and new baby if I need their help.

katiebeau that is absolutely shocking :o

Do you mind if I ask where this group is?

If it was me, I would go directly to the area manager of the HV team and explain your position and point out how inappropriate it is to stop someone in your position from attending. But that's just me, I'm a bit bolshy like that ;)

We had someone come to our group not so long ago who had been exclusively ff for about 6 weeks and was interested in re-starting breastfeeding, she was semi-successful, she is now a peer supporter :)

pyjamalover I agree

That term is mainly directed at ill informed people who make silly judgements about other peoples choices. Unfortunately when it is banded around so freely, those of us who are pro-breastfeeding and realise the importance of educating people about breastfeeding (so they can make their own informed choices) seem to get tarred with the same brush.

I also think that the people who make snide remarks, rude comments etc directed at bottle feeding mums, even though it is completely unnacceptable, STILL don't deserve to be likened to the people responsible for the holocaust.

I have posted lots about the hospital my friend and I attend even sometimes not being believed.

Last week she finally had her baby after a hellish pg, she managed to breast feed for about a day and a half. Eventually it got too painful and decided she wanted to formula feed, she asked one of the MW's for formula and was refused!!! She was crying and begging at 5am because she really felt she couldn't BF. Another MW eventually gave her the formula.

It's unfair for the people who are genuinely trying to help to have stuff said about them but people like that witch are the ones to blame.

Stillorsparkling in what way was their behaviour like that of the gestapo?

Some people are bad at their jobs. It's a particular shame when they are working with vulnerable people as many new mums are. But i'm guessing they didn't force you on to a cattle train at gunpoint.

I'm not excusing them being crap. Just questioning the use of the term "breastapo"

my point exactly MoonFaceMamaaaaargh

I get very cross when I hear reports of these types of things happening, it is a shame that there are many incompetent, poorly trained people out there who are perceived to be 'pressuring' women to breastfeed, without offering them the support needed to actually do it.

I am very happy to label these people 'incompetent' 'crap at their job' 'useless' etc. Just don't think it's fair to liken them to mass murderers!

I can think of at least one publication which frequently publishes what amount to anti BF stories and encourage the use of terms suh as breastapo etc. Now my son is 12 weeks old and 16lbs I am increasingly being asked by people (not health people, more family and friends) if I have considered supplementing his feeding. They seem convinced he needs formula or even solids! He's doing fine on my milk and I have no plans to stop giving him it.

If, like you say it is stiilorsparkling just that we don't like being laughed at, why do you think it is ok to make a mockery of people who spend a considerable amount of their own time and money to help other people?

In my first post on this thread stillorsparkling i said ime the term breastapo is used by people with ishoos. Sadly you have just proved my point. You had a crap time with bf, shit support, and wheel out the nazi analogies.

Tbh i couldn't case less about being equated with fascism, let alone laughed at. It bothers me more that people who were abducted by a murderous regime are having that experienced likened to someone being criticised for deciding to ff*.

*and even that seems to be rare. Mostly the term is used about anyone who dares point out, shock horror, bf is better.

DrCoconut I bet I could guess exactly which publication you are talking about Sounds like you're doing really well, he's your son, just ignore them :)

stillorsparkling I don't think that was really called for As far as I am aware no one has ever referred to me personally as 'the Breastapo' or has laughed at me for what I do. I started this thread because a feel that these terms are now so freely used to describe anyone who is passionate about breastfeeding that many people think it is ok to use them. They are, in their very nature, offensive and I don't think it is acceptable to call anyone very offensive names.

I think midwives in general find the phrase offensive, especially when we are described as the '-- mafia' (as in breastfeeding mafia, natural birth mafia, pain mafia, etc). We as a profession support and encourage natural birth and breastfeeding in the face of increasing opposition, yet we are castigated for doing so, while also carrying the blame for the increasing medicalisation of birth and child rearing.

Midwives (well, at least one!) will support women whatever their choices. As a profession we encourage breastfeeding, but we also recognise that it is not an option for all. In a sense, the Baby Friendly Initiative has created the idea of an oppressive 'you will breastfeed or else' attitude, by the way it assumes all women will breastfeed unless they say otherwise. However, it is the way midwives interpret its meaning- that we offer choice, but assume all women will breastfeed, and instead appear to aggressively push all women down a path they don't necessarily want to follow. At the end of the day, women do what is right for them and their baby, and just because your choice isn't my choice doesn't make it wrong, provided it is an informed choice, and balanced advice has been given.

just read this and thought I'd share it

That's brilliant - I've just shared it on FB