Seriously disillusioned with breastfeeding - from big supporter to just about to give up. Please help me decide.

[Tinwe]

Hi. I know there are similar threads on here, but I really hope someone can help me feel comfortable with a decision either way.

My baby is 7 weeks old and from the start we've been keen to breastfeed for the obvious health benefits for DD, convenience for us all and finances! We'd been breast feeding well (including in public) from just after birth until week 5 or so I thought. On a visit during week 5, HV expressed concern regarding some lingering jaundice, poor weight gain and infrequent poos. Things escalated to an unexpected and stressful hospital admission for tests where we were told that DD was ok, but all these problems were due to breastfeeding. Since then DD has continued to have poor weight gain, spends increasing amounts of time on the breast (often only 1/1.5 hours between 0.5 hr feeds) and is almost always very unsettled when not being fed (especially if not being cuddled constantly with a dummy in place).

We've sought advice from breastfeeding counsellors who have been lovely but can find little wrong with our feeding routine, latch etc.Today I expressed for a day and found my supply is low (despite often squirting when feeding in public!) so we gave DD formula... She was settled and content all day, dozing at times, happy to be laying down without cuddles or dummy, looking around and "talking" to herself or us. The only crying was when feeds were due.

I really want the best for her so I'm finding it very hard to justify carrying on breastfeeding when she seems so much happier on formula and we're not seeing great health gains on the breast. So my dilemma is - should we give up and go onto formula?

Lots of skin-to-skin, offer her your breast instead of the dummy, and carry her constantly (a wrap or mei tai will let you do skin-to-skin and feed in them, with the additional benefit of having at least one hand free). Those should increase your supply and encourage her to feed more often or for longer. Also, try fenugreek or fennel.

You have to expect to spend a lot of time in close contact with your baby early on - I'd be unsettled too if I had spent the last 9 months inside and then was expected to lie on a cold mattress without my mum at 7 weeks! Look up exterogestation - it's the theory that we need to continue 'gestating' them for another 9 months.

Just Wanted to say that I am still breast feeding and my baby is 18 months now, he was never very big, breast fed babies dont grow as fast as bottle fed baby check you have the right centile chart for breast fed babies it is a slower curve than bottle fed, you must be shattered but dont give up there is light at the end of the tunnel, also my baby was jaundice for ages, we went to clinic ect but he was fine, it was like having a daffodil!! Take it easy, eat and drink
Big hugXX

How are things now, OP?

If you can have a day in with your baby and try and do breastfeeding lying down. This was a life saver for me and both my DDs (they breastfed until 12 months old).
I could not breastfeed sitting up, had to lie down and it was bliss!
You need to up your supply and the only way of doing that is to let baby feed as much as possible and for your to relax totally.
Call it a breastfeeding 'duvet day'

Hi all, thank you so much for taking the time to reply, I've written a long post so to reply to you all. I am so determined to do what's right for DD and would plough through any number of breastfeeding problems like bleeding nipples, screaming for hours etc if I felt it was best for her, I'm just not sure it is!

tortoise I expected her to want a lot of holding, but the difference between when she's been breast fed and had a bottle is immense! For example, today I gave her a bottle this morning (as she had breastfed and was still crying), she was calm, alert and talking to me, then gazing around at the mother and baby group, smiling. At her next feed she had a 40 minutes breast feed and we headed out to her weekly weigh in. She woke up and screamed within a few seconds of coming off the breast, despite cuddles, and did so through the entire weigh in and journey home (40 minutes total). Even at this baby-friendly place people were commenting on her unhappy cries and the HV stated that she was obviously hungry. On return home in desperation I gave her a formula bottle and she drank the full bottle and then went back to looking at me, smiling and talking to me. I love holding her, it's just that I find it hard to reconcile seeing her so unhappy with breast being best for her.

angry I went to the local breast feeding group and I was the only one there! It's a very quiet group. The counsellor is very supportive though.

tanterose Her most worrying weight gain was 2oz in a fortnight. She dropped from 25th centile to just on the 0.4th line in that period. This week she has gained 5oz, after introducing a bed time and a tea time bottle daily and following all guidance as given by the counsellor - feeding on demand, feeding for as long as she wants (stopping when it reaches an hour in the day though), checking latch etc. When she is unsettled (i.e. any time when not after a bottle) she won't tolerate a sling, being swaddled, the harness in her car seat or swing chair or even being held in more than one or two positions.

eshie I have met with some local mums who breast feed through a mother and toddler group. They have explained their difficulties, but have been amazed at the difference in her before and after a bottle and with how she DEVOURS a bottle.

laptop I can hang on until 12 weeks if that's when it eases, just not sure DD can!

saffron I don't think I'm too exhausted thanks but maybe my supply does! Will try taking it easier for a couple of days.

penguin, eachpeach80 and truth weight gain 12oz in a month - 2oz, 5oz, 5oz. DD is getting long and skinny.

gardener I've tried with 2 pumps and manually, best result was from the medela, getting 1/1.5oz a time.

parietal I think we've weathered the 6 week growth spurt - there was a truly horrendous week (the week starting with the hospital visit), things have "eased" since then!

ApuskiDusky thanks for sharing your story, very interesting. Your story sounds very similar to ours. People comment on how tiny/skinny DD is, which is upsetting.

mrswoodentop thanks for the positive feedback

strawberries I've been surprised by the professionals approach to be honest... HV said she would recommend bottle but since breastfeeding was "obviously an emotional issue" she suggested I try a counsellor first. In the hospital they asked what my "attachment" to breastfeeding was, since I was trying so hard! HV is using a BF chart not FF, I checked.

cheese thanks for sharing your story, I feel really guilty when I consider either choice.

truth hospital staff, HV, GP and BF counsellor all checked our feeding. Was advised she could open her mouth slightly wider, which we've been ensuring over last 2 weeks. Hospital staff have given her a clean bill of health.

goodluck Thanks for the support. If everything is "normal", why are all health staff concerned and why don't we fit with the centiles etc?

pyjamalover will look into galactogogues, my counsellor mentioned these recently.

steben I'm considering how to mix feed now, thanks. We don't appear to be having any nipple confusion either luckily!

sc2987 will try more skin to skin and look up exterogestation - thanks!

I forgot to add, I mixed fed for a while and it worked well. Except that she seemed so happy after a bottle and so unsatisfied after boob, I caved and just gave bottle. She is so happy and smily now! Thats just my experience though.

I can't believe your HV said that to you and the general poor support that you have had, I'm sorry. If it helps we have a 1oz gain in 2 weeks once.

It is common for babies to seem more content with FF as it keeps their bodies busy trying to digest it.

If you want your mind set at ease either way I would ask for a referral to a pediatrician. From all accounts they look at the the baby more as a whole rather than focusing on fixed number and centiles like GPs and HVs can do.

trish3717 thanks for your post, will try to relax more about it and spend time skin to skin with DD tomorrow. at daffodil! DD was custard coloured for ages, more people said she looked "healthier" then!
organic Feeling calmer about the whole issue but using the bottle more to supplement my feeds.
Ripeberry we do feed lying down sometimes but I find it more awkward! Especially as I fall asleep and the latch goes... A duvet day sounds good though :)
strawberies thanks so much for replying again. It is good to be reminded that formula isn't THAT bad, you hear so much about how breast is best, I feel awful giving her formula. At first I had to ask DH to give her the bottle as it upset me too much.
cheese sounds like your DD is very similar to mine! I hope to mix feed too if exclusive breastfeeding fails.

Thanks penguin will talk to DH about that possibility, although I'm already fed up with all the intervention, tests and measuring DD has had to undergo.

Tinwe, sounds like you're doing really well. And 5oz in a week when she's at the 0.4 centile is good going.

Our paed was great, acknowledged the issues we'd been having but reassured me about it all at the same time, and allowed me to make the decisions about what I was going to change. And the HVs just deferred to what I had agreed with the paed.

Think about whether you want to be getting her weighed weekly, which it sounds like you're doing - my HV and paed were both happy with fortnightly weighing despite our problems, and encouraged me to consider monthly weigh-ins as soon as we started back on track. Weighing every week really shouldn't be necessary and can just mean you lurch between 'good' and 'bad' weeks that would average out over a fortnight.

It sounds like most peds just look over the notes look at the baby and discuss with you. If there is cause for concern then at least it's being at looked at by someone more in the know.

Even with out low weight gain our HVs were happy to weight monthly.

FWIW DD had weight gain issues and our biggest problem was that she wasn't getting a deep enough latch to get enough fattier milk for her - the latch looked okay before but an infant feeding specialist switched us to a firm cradle hold instead of the cross-cradle everyone else suggested and DD started gaining weight properly!

In the first 2 weeks, with all our issues (she had to be in SCBU for 3 days to start with), she dropped from the 50th centile to just below the 2nd. She didn't regain her birth weight till she was a month old. But last time I got her weighed (about 22 weeks) she'd regained the 50th centile!

Tinwe the FF vs BF scenario sounds so familiar to me! I'm just wondering if, like me, your DD has got some underlying (minor) issues such as reflux/tongue tie, something else, that hasn't surfaced yet? I'm hoping not, but basically this is my (DS2 still unsolved) experience:

Both my DSs, from birth, appeared satisifed only after having a bottle(be it formula or EBM). With DS1 that I only BF for a week, I blamed my bad boobs. With DS2, once again had loads of issues, engorged, blocked ducts and once again I blamed low supply. Unfortunately with DS2, I gradually stopped BF due to nursing strike from 5 weeks, I blamed loads of things, and accepted that formula satisfies him so much more. But not long after being on the bottle, he started showing all symptoms of very bad latch - despite appearing to be perfect on breast the 5 weeks of his life. Like your DD, he was also constantly on my breast (10+++ hours a day and night) and only ever looked satisfied after a bottle.

Agree with japhrimel, get latch checked, get tongue triple checked, get tummy checked. You're doing such a brilliant job. It's hard work, I've been there, had to give up and actually really wish that I'm still BF. Hang in there and I hope you get it all sorted. End of the day, as you said, formula isn't that bad. :)

Hello, just wanted to add my support and say that my ds dropped down to the 2nd centile (from the 25th at birth) and was perfectly fine. At 7.5 months he is now back up at the 25th! He is perfectly healthy.

He was also extremely unsettled during the early weeks, peaking at around 6-8 weeks. He is now a lovely happy boy.

This will not be a popular reply but when I had similar problems I expressed following Gina Ford's plan to get milk supply up. It worked brilliantly and dd from being very unhappy was blissful thereafter. Once my supply was up I cut back expressing. I breastfed her until she was about 13 months and she never had formula. Good luck whatever you decide to do

It's a shame that your local group isn't more popular, do you think you will go back? I had fantastic support from a community nursery nurse in the early weeks - she would just pop round to my house to support me 1:1 whilst I was feeding, whether that was actively helping such as checking latch, or just sitting and chatting about her experiences with bf. Maybe your HV could put you in touch with someone like that?

I know it's really hard, but try not to focus on the centile charts and weight gain too much. The best advice I was given by my HV was to look at DS as a whole - if he seems happy and healthy, don't worry too much about how he stacks up against the centiles. I have just checked my red book and DS regained his birth weight at 2 weeks, and for the next 2 months gained only 1-2oz per week.

DS was very unsettled for the first three months, and still has the odd fidgety feed now (nearly 7 months).My HV told me one trick that seemed to help - I would give DS a small amount in a bottle before a feed to take the edge of his hunger, and then try latching him on when he was less desperate for milk. That really worked for us, as he seemed to find it easier to latch into a good position when he was a bit calmer (made me a bit calmer too!).

Good luck - we're all rooting for you!

Sorry everyone but my advice toTinwe would be give up bfing and move on to formula full-time.

I am a great bfing advocate but it's not the be all and end all of infant feeding, and I honestly believe that when it causes us this much worry and anxiety and the baby seems to be much happier when not breast fed then the benefits of bfing are greatly reduced and it's just not worth carrying on. New babies shouldn't be miserable all the time and if the misery can be reduced by giving formula then common sense tells me that this is what you do.

Breast feeding is brilliant when it's successful but I can see no point in anyone putting themselves through the mill when there's an alternative available.

but most of the worry seems to have been incorrectly placed upon her by HCPs

FF or BF but at least the OP is getting the knowledge she's doing all she can before switching.