When is the best time to express?

[threelittlebabies]

I thought it was after feeding, but just tried that now and got a measly ounce after pumping for 45 mins! It seems gone are the days when I got 5 ounces in 10 mins. I'm worried my milk supply is dwindling, but why? Although the last feed was relatively fuss-free, for the first time in ages. DD is 10 weeks old and feeds frequently every 2.5-4 hrs during the day, but rarely without crying and pulling away mid feed. Any ideas what could be causing this and how I can improve this expressing business will be gratefully received!

• How much you can express is no indication of how much your baby is getting. Babies are better at getting milk out than you, or any pump, is. If your baby is gaining weight, weeing/pooing, etc etc, your supply is fine.

• Can you express on one side while feeding on the other? I always found this easiest.

• Can you do something other than watch the pump while expressing? Relaxing and doing something else helps a lot.

• Expressing regularly will increase the amount you can express.

Thanks, you're right, I know you're right, that she is ok and getting enough. I have no confidence in myself!

I have never tried expressing on one side and feeding on the other at the same time, because I would worry there would be not enough for her if she wanted the second side herself. Do you think this is likely?

i always found first thing in the morning was the easiest and most productive

good luck

She'll get more from the second side if she needs it. If she's not gaining well, I'd be nervous about "using up" the second side when she might need it, but if her gain is fine, I'd go ahead. (You know your boobs are never actually "empty", right?)

Does she get a bottle of EBM regularly?

Thanks gossifer, I tried that this am and got another ounce, big deal! I will persevere though. Thanks for the suggestion

NotQuiteCockney, I think she's gaining ok, 4.5 ounces in 5 days and before that only 2.5 ounces in 9 days, she is following the 9th centile, though I understand that the chart in the red book isn't for breast fed babies?

I know from what I have read and seen on mumsnet that the breasts are never empty. Also spoken to the NCT breastfeeding counsellors a couple of times, but I have trouble believing it when she fusses and screams so much! Today she fed at 12.30pm for about 20 mins eventually, then not again till 5.10pm (we had been out) and then it was a couple of mins one side, big sceaming fit, swap over and repeated on other side, then she had her dummy and was fine!Though I did offer second breast again a few times after that, each time the same routine was repeated. I am at a loss to understand why or what is going on. She doesn't have a bottle of EBM every day, only when we are out somewhere I would find it difficult to feed, or if I am not with her (like bonfire night, took ds (3) out and my mum fed her whilst I was gone) Should she be having more? I think I need to express more, but with ds, chores and tiredness it doesnt happen. I have 6 pots full in the freezer, trying to stockpile some. I usually can express enough if I need a bottle but not the last few days. She still only has between 3 and 5 ounces on HV advice. Thanks for replying, I appreciate the advice and ideas.

Expressing is just more work for a v. busy mummy. Is lo generally content, with enough wet and pooey nappies and meeting developmental milestones? Then don't worry. You sound like you are doing an excellent job. The screaming fit will end. I think that I went thru a phase at about the same age when I kept thinking dd was not staying on long enough to get a full feed and kept insisting she had more. I only succeeded in getting her into upset at me and feeding. Some things to keep in mind: At this age they can feed really efficiently so she may be at the end of a feed when you are still thinking she is only mid-feed. The 9th %-ile may be her place on the charts, someone (like my dd too) has to be that 1 out of 10 babies on the 9th. She may just be full and content with a smaller feed. Also, try this out if it makes you happy, I did it. When she pulls off mid-feed and screams, keep calm, and go with what she wants. Take her off, cuddle her, put her down and try 5 mins later. If she is still not interested, just leave it. Another technique I used in the 10 -14 wk phase to keep her feeding was to gently shush and/or her while she if seemed like she was getting anxious. I got good shushing and walking around with her too when she got at the distractible stage at 12-15 wks. she really liked that.

Hope this helps.

should say: shush and/or gently rock her while feeding

I found it very difficult, more hassle than it was worth

but my friend said try in the morning and it was loads easier

thanks verastones and alux, will take it all on board. Last feed went better, so feeling more relaxed. Will respond to posts tomorrow, off to bed before I pass out/ strangle DH (or not-so-D H at the mo!)

if they dont feed too much in the night then first thing in the morining expressing while they feed.
ds2 has never provided me with the luxury in months as he is dreadgful at night

I express during most feeds and get a few ounces....at least

We have absolutely the same problems! I'm trying just to go with DSs lead but he feeds for 4 or 5 mins 5 times a day MAX. His weight gain has slowed a lot lately but it's still going up. Rocking while feeding sometimes helps him.

It's very hard to be confident of your ability to feed when they seem to hate it isn't it? I'm pants at expressing - which has always made me worry abot my milk.

But the ladies on here assure me all is well. Go with the flow for a week or two and keep an eye on weight and health.

I only ever get decent amounts when I'm away from ds and he's not totally draining every drop from me!

Best time for me was 3am-i would fill a bottle!!

other thoughts - weight gain naturally slows after the initial big burst. look at the %-ile curves to see what i mean.

honey, stop worrying about ounces. this is not bottle feeding. If you can only leave 2.5 oz for someone to give lo if you are away then leave only 2.5 oz. lo won't starve, just means that you may have to come back slightly earlier than you hoped.

I say the same as chipmonkey re expressing. I only get loads when I'm away from her. If you are however, determined to express, what you can do, and I do this only because I am back at work as I couldn't be arsed otherwise, is to get your body to make another feed for her. I started to pump at 8.30pm which is at least 1.5 hrs before she woke up for her another feed. you pump for at least 30 mins even if you just get drops, and then keep doing that every night at the same time. After about a week, my body started to produce about 3oz for that 'feed'. One main thing about pumping is doing it at the same time every day.

V. important to note, pumping is a skill you learn. it takes time to get the hang of it. so stop beating up yourself.

I have never pumped while baby is attached. Sounds a lot like juggling to me.

IME, next week you will stop worrying about this and find something else to stress out about. That's motherhood for you.

Thanks everyone for the good advice, am going to work my way through your suggestions! Alux,thank you for the encouragement- you are right, I will be worrying about something else next week if not sooner! After all the advice I have had on here I feel much more confident about the breast feeding. DD had her 1st injections today, a few weeks late as she hadn't been well. Went ok, fed beautifully afterwards and is now asleep, soon to be joined by me. Had an awful night last night, both of us with colds and ds aged 3 got up at 5.30am!HV annoyed me today, saying dd's weight had 'dipped'off the 9th centile- it hasn't they just weren't looking at it right.There were 3 of them all looking concerned, and they probably thought I was a bit stroppy, but I am not having them try and persuade me there is something wrong with her, she has put 3.5 ounces on in the last 2 days fgs! Feel much better now (for now!) thank you

glad you feel better. and glad you took the hvs 'concern' in stride. weight is not everything. my lo (30 wks) is also a titchy baby. she has been at nursery since 19 wks and has had colds like all the others but has not had to stay home a day yet because of illness.[knock wood] mostly due to bf I say. while the other 5 babies who started over the same month all have. so there. you may yet teach those hvs something about bf. I surely have mine! that's another story. hope you have a lots of sleep tonight.

Funny things is alux, my ds was breast fed for 3 weeks then I was told to stop by MW as he was not putting on weight- apparently she could not have supported me through it . After he went on formula he was a chubby baby, 75th centile and he was very happy. Then people, HVs included would say gosh isnt he big? Now it's gosh isnt she small- can't win I suppose! After my experience with ds I was determined to give breastfeeding another crack, and that's probably why I am so anxious to get it right

sounds like the same thing that nearly happened to me. At 2 wks my hv weighed dd. She was 7.5% below birth wt and said definitively, well, you have to top her up with formula then. I swear, it was like saying 'your dd will die during the night tonight and there is nothing anyone can do.' I sobbed my eyes out as if my heart would break! she had no idea what to do! I broke down anew everytime dh asked if I was ok as if she had died. I came on mn the following day and mentioned what happened and the lovely ladies on here put me straight. When she visited the next week dd had put on 8oz and the following week another 8. HA! Jumping from the 9th to the 50th percentile. (Since then she has worked herself back down to the 9th and is happily tootling along there for some time now. No hv has since offered me much advice! ]

ps: I think you will get this right this time. Watch what happens around 12 wks

Oh GOD, 12 weeks, some awful growth spurt, yes? Where she screams for more milk and I try to keep up??!!!

ooops. sorry there is a growth spurt around then but you and dd will cope with it a lot better since you are now a better informed and more confident bf. the best thing at that stage is that stage is that they stop midfeed, look up at you and sssmmmmmiiiiilllle. other nice things also happen. she'll feed faster so the spurt won't seem so cruel.

When DS was new born I used to express a few ounces before his morning and next feed and then again at night, when I would express off all milk.
I gradually reduced the amount I expressed in the day time from 2-3 oz to not at all. This helped to increase my milk supply to meet his increasing appetite. Or alternatively you can freeze it for later if you are also combining bottle feeds.

DS is now 6 months and I continue to just express at night, at around 10pm and empty my breasts of all milk.

I do think that as much as some people don't like the Gina Ford books ........her advice on expressing is very good and worked well for me.

An electric pump, if you are doing a lot of expressing is a must! I have got the Ameda Lactaline which cost about £75 but as I have used it every day for 6 months and it has worked miracles I think it is worth the inital outlay!

Good luck!

Firstly- My first ever thread made the home page!!!

alux, I will wait for that! I just love the smiles I get from dd (who doesnt) and noticed she has dimples! How cute.

Don't know if I said this already, but I worry that if I express too near to the next feed she will not get enough at that feed IYSWIM. Do you think this is true? or am I mad?!!

mumB thanks for the advice and encouragement, sounds like you have it sussed and hope the same is soon true for me. I will have to dig out my Gina Ford book, I admit I abandoned it almost as soon as i had read it with ds, didn't like it , mainly because I felt at the time it was all a bit beyond me, the routines etc.!But then I wasn't breastfeeding, so maybe should have another look. I am currently reading (or trying to) Tracey Hogg, Secrets of the Baby Whisperer, the chapter on feeding is long, so am trying to find time to get through it and see if that helps.