A bit of reassurance needed - DS falling through centiles

[ReshapeWhileDamp]

Albeit very slowly. He was born on the 50th centile, 7lb 15. We went onto weighting him monthly after about 7 weeks. He stayed pretty much on the 50th for the first few weeks and has very gradually been dropping since about 11/12 weeks (obviously, since he's weighed every 4 weeks or so, it's not an exact science! ). At his 16 week weigh-in he had dropped to the 25th centile and today, five weeks later at 21 weeks, he's 14lb 11, halfway between the 25th and 9th centiles. He's put on 15 oz in the last 5 weeks.

Is this gradual dropping a natural thing or could it have something to do with the way he feeds at night? We cosleep, for my sanity mostly, and though he might wake as often as four times between 10-11pm and 7am, he nuzzles close, has a very quick suck and is back to sleep - never really wakes properly. Whereas if he were in a cot beside me, he'd wake properly, cry etc and probably (remembering how it was with DS1) have a good feed before being put down again. I'm wondering if this might explain his slowing weight gain. He's still little, so he does need a decent night feed!

HV was a bit more concerned this time than last month, and when I suggested this theory she thought I should really try to get one good nightfeed into him. I'm steeling myself to try this (the reason I cosleep is in order to get a decent night's sleep!) but does any of this sound at all alarming?

DS2 is generally active, not sitting up yet but trying hard to , loves people and watching his older brother - in other words, normal and healthy. BUT he can also be a very grumpy little customer and isn't what I'd call 'placid'. He fusses and complains a lot more than DS1 did and isn't as avid a bf-er as he was. So of course, though I should know better, I'm now getting a niggling little voice saying 'Maybe that's why he cries a lot and isn't always that happy. He's hungry and not getting enough milk'. I feed him on demand, but like I say, he isn't as enthusiastic as his brother was - but presumably if he was hungry, he'd stay on longer?

50th to just under the 25th doesn't sound like a huge drop to me - ds went from 75th to under the 25th by 4 months, and then up a bit since weaning.

Do you offer a feed every time he's grizzly?

I certainly try to stick a boob in his mouth every time he moans (he feeds probably every 2 hours, sometimes more frequently, occasionally he'll go for 3 or 4 hours, depending on his mood, needs and what we're doing!). With DS1 needing my attention/cooking/nappy changing etc, I can't always respond instantly, but I'd say he gets fed pretty much on demand (as much as a Subsequent Neglected Child can be, anyway!).

This paper on shifts in growth patterns in childhood ma be of interest.

oops may

Thanks! Have only read the abstract so far but it does seem to indicate that between 0-6 months, it's very common for babies to cross two major centiles for weight (40% roughly).

The centile lines are only averages, and not every child can be average! Personally I would be very reluctant to wake him up at night if he's feeding lots in the day, but I value my sleep

Happy to be of help . I think the point is that many babies don't follow an even growth path and that charts are averages. They can serve an important purpose in highlighting a baby child whose growth pattern is unusual - but this alone doesn't mean there is a problem, it's then necessary to look at the child.

So if your dc is generally well, alert and happy, fed as much as he wants when he wants it and has wet and dirty nappies....then in all likelihood there is no issue....but that's something to decide in RL.

I'd just try and get more feeds in him during the day. DD gets very distracted now, so will go for longer without a feed if I don't actually offer it. She generally sleeps through and is climbing centiles (ebf and was on the 2nd, now on the 50th at nearly 6 months) so I do not think the lack of a proper night feed is the simple answer.

I thought a weight drop of more than 2 centiles was when to get concerned anyway? So it doesn't sound like time to panic yet...maybe just think about trying to get more milk in him when you can.

(grr, MN just ate my post)

Thanks, all! I think I'll go on as before but try and focus on getting him to take more during the day - sometimes he feeds but gets very distracted and comes off quickly, and other times he just falls asleep soon after latching on. As it is, I mostly offer him a feed every 2 hours (or less) - sometimes he makes it obvious that he wants one by lunging at me and sucking my face , and other times I offer because he's tired and needs a nap, or because I think it's 'time'. So it might be hard to fit more feeds into the day, esp with all the things I need to do for DS1, who is frustrated that I'm always feeding DS2 as it is! So improving the intake per feed seems to be the way to go.

Lizzy - mostly, he's alert, healthy and energetic by day, but also often grumpy and unputdownable. (Which is why I started wondering if he was actually hungry.) He has reasonably wet nappies (they could be wetter, or rather, they could need changing more frequently) and poos perfectly normally for a bf baby, as far as I can see. As for feeding when he needs it, he has 24/7 access to me - I wear him in slings, he naps on my lap and sleeps beside me at night, so I suspect that he's asking for milk as often as he needs to. A friend reminded me that babies grow unevenly, as you did, and I think this is something I need to remember.

Japhrimel - glad to hear your DD is sleeping a lot and doing so well! I think that more daytime milk is the way to go too - thanks for the support.

Are you looking at the BF charts as I was a bit worried about DD and checked? The FF charts seem to be slower weight gain at the start than BF then BF gain more slowly than FF babies. That is a terrible explanation!!!

As usual Kellymom explains!

As far as I know, all the charts are based on bf stats now. Useful link, thanks!

My DS was born on the 75th percentile and dipped right down to the 25th the whole time he was EBF. He even dropped down to the 9th for a couple of weeks. As soon as I introduced food at 24 weeks he shot back up. If he is alert and generally happy I would just continue on. He will be having solids soon. But one thing we did find out with DS (later on when he was no longer EBF) was that he has a dairy allergy so not sure if that was a reason for the slow weight gain.

This is exactly what has happened to me this week. I have been cosleeping and my son feeds in the same way as yours, and I had your concern. My doctor recommended I give formula, and I have done so three days running now, one 120 ml bottle each day. I really really didn't want to do that and was gutted to have to, but he does seem more satisfied now. The troubles did seem start to begin when I began cosleeping with him, and doing exactly what you said you were, feeding little often, however then maybe I started cosleeping with him because I was feeling somewhat under the weather and I couldn't cope with getting up and feeding him all the time, so i don't really know which came first.

Also, along with giving the formula, I upped my own calories, eat more often increased significiantly the water I'm drinking, drank more milk and stopped having any treat glass of wine. Also, I increased the amount of sleep I got which I was able to do because he slept longer after having the formula. My breasts got heavier quickly and I think I produced more and better quality milk, and I'm hoping hoping this will continue and that I'll be able to return to EBF within days.

Although he was alert and playing, and generally happy, he did seem noticeably more satisfied with the formula (and seem to really want it when I gave it to him) but since looking at my own overall alright-ness improving that seems to have really improved things too...

Also now, he's back in the cot, and I wake up get up feed him and with my bigger boobs, he seems to be more satisfied and go directly back to sleep rather than require more attention. Thus we're no longer co-sleeping which is giving me better sleep too.

I think it was getting more calories in my diet, and ensuring my own diet was completely sorted balanced and sufficient, and my intake of water and milk particularly improved which has made the change. I also think that giving formula allowed me to sleep which in turn helped my overall well-being. My husband is away a lot, I live in the middle of nowhere, have little contact with the outside world, and so I think I was becoming totally exhausted. I can see a big difference though in us both in just a 3 day period. Still, I want to get him back off that formula as soon as I think we can.

He's 5 months old and had also gone from 50 to about 15 percentile.

Regardless, it was a real relief actually to read your post and to understand that I'm not alone and that it might be common. Just off to read the other links from the thread now...

PS Having read the links, that is EXACTLY what happened to me. The doctor said that it was very worrying and in turn utterly freaked me out, and told me I had to give formula. I do think that DS has been satisfied with the formula too actually, and that satisfying him a little more gave me time to recuperate and get myself together a bit physically (and get a bit of sleep), but I do think that my husband and I are rather small people, and the information in the two links make sense, and put my mind at ease. I don't know if I rushed to formula supplements a bit too suddenly, but I was startled by the docs reaction. Really interesting links. Thanks.

Hi reshape, just wanted to say the my ds was similar - started on the 25th centile and dropped almost to the 2nd. He was also a grumpy bugger and unputdownable until 4.5 months. We too coslept and he napped on my lap or in the sling (still does actually!)

Anyway, at 6.5 months he is now back on the 25th. He has had no formula and we are doing blw (ie he hardly eats any of his food) so his weight gain has been entirely on my own milk. I have been very lucky to have a supportive family and HV.

Aha, I think I posted on your grumpy baby thread, no? How funny that there are weight gain similarities too.

Hi Okonomiyaki. Why did you decide not to give him formula if he dropped weight and was also grumpy and unputdownable? I'm asking because I don't know whether I should ride it out with ebf or continue with a little additional formula...

If you want to ebf then why not express milk and bottle feed that rather than using formula if you're concerned?

It's been reassuring to read this, and the article that was linked to. DS3 was born on the 98th centile (a whopper at 10lb4oz) and stayed there for a bit, but has since been drifting down and is currently on the 75th (so still pretty big!)

I'm trying not to be worried about it, despite the flappings of HVs - because he's still pretty big, seems v robust, feeds and sleeps pretty well and is the most settled of my 3 DSs as babies. Nevertheless, it's reassuring to read that moving down the centiles like this is common at 0-6 months. My own (totally non-scientific) theory is that he's just 'normalising' - DS1 and 2 were both 7lbers, and it was quite a shock to have such a big baby. There's nothing in my and DH's genes to suggest someone on the 98th centile, so I think he just got massive (too much cake - my bad ) in the 2 whole weeks (grrr) that he was overdue and is now adjusting down to the more modest size he should have been if he'd got his arse into gear and come out on time...

Mog, a friend of mine was told to wean at 16 weeks by her HV because her baby went from the 98th to 75th 6 months later she is still on the 75th!

Hi pink, the honest reason is that I am utterly, utterly bloody minded when I have set my heart on something :o

Seriously though, I was just convinced (mostly from reading this forum and Kellymom) that hunger wasn't the issue and that some babies are just more unsettled at first. Also that a drop of two centiles is not neccesarily indicative of a problem, especially when your baby is bright, alert and filling nappies for england. Thank jeff I appear to have been right.

I also read the politics of breastfeeding to keep me nice and angry ;) Nothing like a bit of righteous rage against capitalism/patriarchy to keep you motivated.

Oh yes, and co-sleeping. If my dh had insisted on persevering with getting ds to sleep in his Moses basket then I would have needed help with the nightfeeds as ds was an unspeakably terrible sleeper at first. I really do understand what you mean about the need for sleep.

I have NOT found doctors very supportive of my decision not to give formula. Even the paediatrician we saw out of desperation (thought maybe he had reflux - he doesn't) was very dismissive and told me that by four months he'd had the benefit.

If you did want to return to ebf then the support is here. Equally there is great info on successful mixed feeding - what do you want to do?

I also appear to have a great HV!