6wks of expressing milk

[bumperella]

I desperate want to BF my baby. But can't (so far?).
I had an elective cesarian at 39 weeks, under general anaesthetic, and she was 5lb 9oz. She had to be fed formula at first as my milk didn't come in for 6 days, she was way too teensy to wait (all under paedriatricain advice).
As a "temporary measure" I expressed milk and bottle-fed her that; this still the case 6 weeks on.
My milk is now not enough to meet her needs, (she's now over 8lb and has a BIG apetite!) - my supply is dwindling, her apetitie is increasing.
I try at (almost) every feed to get her to latch on; we've succeeded twice in the last 2 weeks. Both times she happily stayed there for an hour, and she was definitely sucking and swallowing... but then 10 mins later was crying for a feed again and wouldn't latch, so had to be given a bottle.

None of the midwives in hospital nor the health visitors have been able to get her to latch on nor can they see a reason for the problem - possibly she was too small and too drugged-up when she was born and now is too used to bottles.

So, should I keep trying or not? I'm gutted at the idea of not being able to breastfeed her and feel a total failure, and do wonder if by persevering another week or two we could get there. But it's been 6 weeks and I'm fed up and miserable and I don't have enough milk anyway. I need to revert to childhood myself and have someone tell me what to do!

She needs to nurse to stimulate your supply so you have enough milk for her (pump is not as good a baby for getting milk out). If you really want to bf I'm sure it can be done with the right support. She has latched on in the past after all.

I think you need some rl support on this one. You can search for local bf support here. Personally I found La Leche really good, give one of the helplines a call today.

You are not a failure, sounds like you have been doing a lot to keep this going but unfortunately have not had specialist support you need (mw and hv often don't know THAT much about how bf works). Even if you decide not to carry on I'm sure one of the helplines would be able to talk it through so you feel better about the situation.

Some babies will feed from a cup which might help with nipple confusion (ie prefering the teat). ALso there is a contraption that has a tiny tube attached to your nipple so she could suck and get top up at the same time to ensure she was getting enough but also stimulating your supply.

Also have lots of time skin to skin, even just her dozing on your bare chest and she may feel more like latching.

I agree this calls for RL support

Just out of interest how much milk a day is she having?

Have you heard of a supplemental nursing system?

Giving formula in your situation is not failure. You have tried your best to give him as much bm as you can. Like others have said your milk supply depends on your DC feeding from you. At 6 weeks she is very much used to the teat. (it's recommended not to give a bottle to a baby until bf is well established for this reason). Is it worth the stress to get her back on the breast? Maybe it's better to just enjoy your little one?

I want add that a happy mum makes a happy baby!

The "is it worth the stress" is exactly my dilemma.... I'm going to a BF help thingummy tomorrow morning; will wait and see what hapens but really feel am getting to "crunch time" now. Either she latches and feeds consistently(say half the time, with formula top ups!) for the next week or it's the fomulae.
I have a supplemental nursing system, but it's really tricky to get her latched on in first place and the tube seems to need me to grow a third hand...!

I think regardless of your decision it will help to talk it through with someone to help you make the decision one way or the other with as least guilt as possible. If you do switch to FF for example you could do with a plan rather than just stop expressing.

sorry to repeat but you say you're worried she's not getting enough, but still haven't said how much you produce in a way. Just that BF amounts are different to FF amounts and not everyone knows this.

FWIW I also agree with happy mother...

I was in much the same situation as you when my dd was 5-6 weeks old. She had a tongue tie dealt with in hospital and we saw multiple midwives plus the lactation consultant but she still would not latch, and screamed each time I tried. As a result I struggled terribly with guilt at what I felt was my failure to feed (despite her having expressed milk in a bottle) and felt that I was heading for PND. However I now look back and think whether there was anything else I could have done to succeed with breastfeeding. Both my dh and my parents felt that it was time to switch to formula for the sake of my mental health and to allow me to enjoy my baby, rather than obsessing about sterilising, expressing etc.

I wish I had succeeded with breastfeeding but I do feel that I gave it my best efforts. We were a much happier family once I had made the difficult decision to convert to formula, and dd is the most lively 6 month old you could imagine. I hope you get the answers you need to make the best decision for you and your dd.

I was devastated when DD1 didn't latch on - she had severe jaundice and was pinned on a bili-blanket for a few days - she never managed to latch on despite getting all the help we could find. I also spent 3 months expressing milk and trying every time she cried to get her to latch on first. Those first three months were so tough - I adored her and felt a total failure and horribly stressed all the time. In the end a good friend who had tried BF and decided not to continue came round and pointed out she had already had more breast milk than the average UK baby and maybe it was time to start enjoying her and stop the stress. She was right and when I switched to formula life improved beyond belief - even her colic stopped which I now think was due to all the air she gulped in while screaming as I tried to latch her on all the time.

I'd get some more real life help and if it's not working out and you decide to use formula PLEASE try not to feel you have 'failed'. A mother's role is to sustain and feed her baby in the best way she can although it is enormously upsetting if you wanted to BF, that is exactly what you are and will be doing. Milk is only one part of what you are giving her. There was a report about emotional neglect recently which showed how babies can already be damaged by 3 months if they're not loved. Most jolly little babies are formula fed - it's a big disappointment that can't be said enough - but it's NOT a failure. Your baby needs a loving mum and nothing can stop you being that - it's clear you already are so get all thoughts of failure OUT of your head and enjoy your baby once you have sorted out your feeding. Best of luck and ignore anyone who undermines you!

bumperella - as the weekend is coming up (and this is assuming your OH works M-F 9-5) could you try the SNS at every feed with their help to see if two day of being fed at just the breast was enough to kick start her interest in bfing? OH could then help you in mornings/evenings/night for the rest of the week with the SNS to see if that continued to reinforce boobs=food until you were happy DD was taking enough.

I know this is in reply to something onthe other thread but if you were to babymoon you could also have the SNS on and I have heard that dim/dark lighting helps with feeding reflexes (lowers external stimuli).

Ultimately though there comes a time where you have to evaluate the pluses and the minuses of the situation and weigh up if stopping to try to bfing/expressing would make you feel worse or better. Unfortunately no-one bar you knows whether stopping would make you feel fantastic or dreadful but no one should judge you what ever way you go. If they do send them to me and I will give the a good hard kick for you.

Thanks all.
I know she's getting enough to eat, but haven't been clear: I'm having to feed more and more formula to meether needs.So am concerned that the amount of breastmilk she's getting is so little (30% of her total intake, very approximately) that there's little gain in continuing, also that if she did latch on and breast feed then she would still need a significant amount of formula to "top up". I didn't explain myself clearly first time around, apologies!

Bumperella- I would expect her intake to remain fairly static not ever increasing which is why I linked to the how to bottle feed the bf baby article on the other thread. Some times babies take more by bottle than they need due to the way a bottle works.

FWIW when DD3 at 6m and ebf (on medical grounds) I was hosptialised for a week. She only took an absolute max of 120mls a feed, more normally 90-100mls though (it took me 6+ double pumping sessions to make 4 bottles up towars the end of that week when I was able to pump more). She was having about 600mls a day + one or two bfs from me and was satisfied on that. To start with though most of her milk was formula and she did have a friends milk too as I wasn't able to express much at all.

If you can get the latch sorted, you should be able to stimulate your supply through pumping and feeding (which is more efficient than pumping) to gradually transition off formula.

I would highly recommend trying to insist on seeing an NHS infant feeding specialist (NOT a normal MW, HV or even BFC) or a private lactation specialist. When we were really struggling with DD after she left SCBU, we radomly saw an NHS infant feeding specialist who was also a MW and she was amazing and had a totally different approach to the BFCs/usual MWs/etc. Traditional cradle hold in a very firm hold worked best for DD by miles. She couldn't get a deep enough latch in cross-cradle or other holds.

I tried (this morning) the "biological nursing" thing (plonked her on my tummy and let her get on with it, basically!). She managed to work her way up and found nipple without any problem (took her a while as she's obviously not that mobile yet). Which was absolutely incredible to see.
HOWEVER she then spat it out and started SCREAMING. Not a little bit of disatisfaction, but real full-blown pained, ear-splitting screaming. I don't think I've seen (or heard) her anything like as upset before. I hadn't moved and I definitely hadn't inadvertently squashed her/stuck a pin in her /etc. I tried to gently coax her to latch on again, but it seemed pointless and felt cruel, so just cuddled her until she was calmer. No idea what happened - I don't know what she was expecting as a reward for all her work, but it definitely wasn't what she wanted! Any ideas on what happened there?

Truthsweet - I think you're dead right - she does take more from a bottle than she really wants/needs as she's often a bit sick after a feed. I'm going to swap to a teat with a far slower "flow" also on advice of HV at breast-feeding group today.

Have you tried sticking the SNS tube to the breast just beyond the nipple with a bit of micropore tape? It saves needing 3 hands!

Was she hungry before the feed? You could try feeding a bit from bottle then trying the bio nuturing. It might have been screaming with frustration as she sucked and did not get immediate reward like with a bottle.

You two are doing better than us with the bn, I had to put and hold ds in place as he never got the hang of it.

huh! She happily latched on, fed for an hour, fell asleep... and thats it... Am maybe getting somewhere... although have been here before. I'd just decided was time to give up, so wasn't trying very hard to get her to nurse.

Great news.

Would it help to think not that "breast is best" but that "every little helps" so she's already had a lot (yay) and she's had more today (yay) and she might have more tomorrow / later (yay). And actually if that's it, she's already got a lot of good stuff from you.