Going to express today. Think it's the start of the end of bf

[soppypreggyloon]

dd is 2 weeks old. I am in serious pain all the way through every feed.
It's not Tongue tie- had snipped day 3.
It's not latch- had checked by 11 people now.
It's not thrush - never been pain free, dd has no symptoms and had checked by 2 mw.
I think it's a combination of strong let down, very efficient feeder who has a strong suck, and frequent 1-3h feeds. (she feeds every 1-2h throughout the day!)

I'm so sore and don't want to break out the formula yet but I need a break.

Any tips for effective expressing?
With ds I could do 3-4oz in 15 mins.

I don't think I'll miss bf!

I've read that you shouldn't try to express till six weeks - are you sure theres nothing else you can try before then? 2 weeks is still quite early, so feeding isnt established yet anyway... Have you seen breast feeding councillors (i assume they are one of the 11 you've been checked by!)

Not that i've got any experience, pregnant with my first, but i'm planning on expressing and this is the advice i've been given.

poor you with the pain :( Are there any creams you can try to soothe yourself?

Sounds like you've really exhausted all the options for seeking out the causes of this pain.

I can only suggest that things will get better over time, as your baby grows and the feeds space out a bit. (Not much help for you now I realise )

here is the info from kellymom about expressing.

I'm sure others will be along soon to give you more tips (I was pretty rubbish as expressing tbh)

Don't give up hope though - it's still early days for you.

Creams make no difference as the pain is during the feed.

I've seen the infant feeding support team at hospital and they couldn't suggest anything else.
Mw suggested expressing- I mentioned the 6 week thing because if nipple confusion etc but she thought (and I agreed) that dd clearly has the hang of bf (for her needs anyhow) so should be fine. Dd has so far gained double what the mw would expect.

I hated bf first time and hate it now too. :(

Hey you need to do what's right for you and your baby.....bf isn't for everyone. I managed 6 weeks before I switched to mixed feeding, I'm now switching to ff, ds is now 14 weeks. I managed to bf for this long by saying "I'll just bf one more day" it was my way of coping.

I'm not saying give up before I get told off!!

I would invest in an electric breast pump (not a manual) tomes tipee does a good one

Good luck x

Might be worth trying to see a breastfeeding counsellor or a lactation consultant to see if they have a different perspective from the hospital staff?

I hope expressing is more comfortable for you - it sounds like you've done your research and gotten some good advice :)

good luck!

If your sore during feeds still then I'd be inclined to think the TT/latch might be worth looking at again. Sometimes TT can regrow. Also lip ties can occasionally cause problems...might be worth getting them both checked out again.

I had real problems until DS was 8 weeks old because of tongue tie. I expressed when we were still in hospital, stopped for a couple of weeks when I came home on advice of the midwife but then started again and carried on till 6 months. I BF as much as I could tolerate, but DH would feed him and I'd express at the same time. I didn't do any night feeds till the TT was sorted, I expressed and DH fed to keep up my supply through the night. I had the odd day off feeding completely too, just expressing.

We didn't use a bottle for a long time, instead using a cup or a tube, as I was paranoid about nipple confusion!

I was lucky that after two months the pain subsided, but DH continued to do the bedtime feed with expressed milk anyway. And I still BF DS now at 18mths (it's painful again now though as I'm pg!).

I used a Medela and an Avent pump. Good luck!

well i pumped 3-4oz altogether - doing 10 mins on each side. its now sitting in the fridge waiting for dd. my trusty tommee tippee manual did me proud!
it was sore too but not as bad as bf as i could control how hard it sucked iyswim.

thanks for all the support - i'm not sad about giving up bf (as i'm pretty sure i will decide to in the next week or so) but i am frustrated that i'm doing everything properly and still in bits like last time with ds.

lunafire - i'd be inclined to agree about the tt regrowth but as i've never had any decrease (and then increase) at all in pain levels i don't think that\s the case. dd is also able to poke her tongue out now which she wasn't able to before.
i'll look into lip ties but given the shape of her mouth/ top lip it doesn't seem to be tied.

icould - exclusive pumping is not really an option as i have a toddler too now and finding the time to pump today was only possible once ds was out swimming with dh and dd had gone to sleep.

i'm not sure we'll do the bottle today, it feels like a big step off the bf road and i feel guilty about it. :(
although not as guilty as first time round so that's something.

thanks loopymumsy

ds had a tongue tie and although that may have regrown i think his was more than likely never snipped properly as he could never stick his tongue out till he tore through it after a fall.
painkillers have done nothing - i had a elcs and despite the paacetamol, supositiory ibuprofen and coedine it has never been pain free or even just less painful!
i could look into nipple shields but they seem like a faff at first glance TBH.

Hi just to add I used medela nipple shields for a while and they worked really well for me. They are less hassle than expressing but I also did that from the first week too. It meant that dd got used to everything from quite an early age and so wasn't a nightmare to switch to having a bottle of formula at 7 months.

well after my expressing efforts this morning i seem to have dried up again (another 3bf later) so as dd was hungry and i was empty dh gave her the bottle of milk.
she had a good 1.5oz and i think is now zonked out.

feel a bit lousy about starting the journey away from bf but i am SO sore! haven't cried yet tho so i suppose that's better than with ds first time round.

I'm not sure if this will help but at first I needed to push DD on to the breast VERY firmly ( think suffocating with boob) to get my nipple past the hard palette to the soft palette. Went from grimmacing to painfree within days.

Yeah I do that too.
She had a 30min bf earlier this evening.

Don't know what to do next but have a feeling I'll express a few more bottles, then slowly switch from bf to ff. Feels like a question of when not if I move to ff now.

Well after all that something weird happened with dd feeding and my supply. She fed every hour or so through the whole of the night an wouldn't settle in between so I got no sleep. My supply seemed to have shut down and I spent halft he night crying as it hurt so much!

I sterilised bottles ready to do ff today but so far haven't...

Don't know WTF was going on last night. She's still struggling to settle in the day today but feeding slightly less often.

Any ideas or suggestions?

Maybe her 3 week growth spurt a bit early? Or boosting your supply which had dipped due to the TT with her new efficient feeding? But if you are still in pain it sounds like the latch / TT is still causing a problem. It may be that the TT wasn't cut deep enough and that she still has a posterior TT or maybe a high arched / bubble palette which would have formed because of the TT.

Well done for bf for "just one more day"! Who are the 11 poeple who have looked at your latch and DD's mouth? MW? HV? Or trained BFC (NCT/ABM/LLLi/BFN are the only 4 recognised organisations in the UK offering BFC training)? Or Lactation Consultant (IBCLC)? Please bear in mind that most nurses / Drs / MW and HV have had very, very little bf training and IME most wouldn't recognise a TT if it came up and bit them on the bottom!

The 11 people were 10mw and one infant feeding support team worker (whatever qualification that is they are the ones qualified to snip tt in our hospital). 8 of the mw said no tt! I knew from experience with ds they were wrong.
The Tongue tie was cut before my milk even came in so I don'tt think there's any lasting issue with that. Dd can really move her Tongue- which ds could never do even after snip so I'm confident they did it right this time.

I'm going to see how tonight goes.

Oops. Meant to add

I'm assuming a high arch / bubble palette isn't fixable. How do you bf with that?

SO you've actualy only seem one quilified specilit in BF, I think it is worth another opoin from a BF counciler. As Bert2e said could be a hight arched palette as well as the TT.

There are technices you can use to feed effectively (and pain free) with a high arch and they do usealy grow into to it so it does get easier as they get bigger.

It's a lest worth a phone call to one of the helplines
National Breastfeeding Helpline
0300 100 0212

NCT Breastfeeding Helpline
0300 330 0771

La Leche League Helpline
0845 120 2918

Association of Breastfeeding Mothers
08444 122 949

SO you've actualy only seem one quilified specilit in BF, I think it is worth another opoin from a BF counciler

That's a bit snippy isn't it?
I have spoken to/ seen 11 HCP. The mw were very supportive and I assumed they would have some level of knowledge in a hospital that prides itself on being breast feeding friendly.

I will be phoning the bf people tmrw but I'm sick of hating feeding my dd. Especially as I have now discovered I have blisters on my nipples! I'm not sure I want to go through the pain barrier. :(

soppy I don't think it was meant to be snippy, it's just most midwives aren't really trained in breastfeeding. I think they do a one day course?

soppy, all 3 of my dc had tt, and only dt1 had a high palette. tt doesn't necessarily make for a high palette, but does make it more common. you can feel by putting your finger in her mouth, does the palette feel smooth like yours or is there a "bubble"? if you decide to keep bf, I managed to make it pretty low-pain using an exaggerated latch. as I bring baby on, I point my nipple away from her mouth, bring her on when mouth wide so the top lip just passes the bottom of my nipple, and release nipple. this seems to get my nipple further in her mouth. as she grew, the palette smoothed out and bf became pain free.

like Rita, I don't think the above was meant to be snippy. I've had sympathy but never any good solid bf advice from a mw (I've seen lots about bf) but have had great advice - advice which actually changed the way bf felt - from bf counsellors. it's not that the mw don't care, they just don't have enough in depth bf training.

good luck tonight and tomorrow.

Sorry all! I'm very tired and sore and emotional.

She fed for 30mins at 7.30 and started looking again just now. I can't face putting he near my boob now I've realised part if the pain is a blister.
I'm going to do some ff tonight and then call the bf counsellors tomorrow.

It just feels like this is getting harder not easier, there have been too many hurdles already. I don't want to slide towards PND like I did with feeding ds.