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Infant feeding

Get advice and support with infant feeding from other users here.

Original poster

argh! Crap bf advice in guardian.

103 replies

MoonFaceMamaaaaargh · 24/04/2011 07:32

Sorry i can't link as i'm away and on mw phone but it's the "doctor, doctor" column on page 113 of yesterdays mag.

A lady who is struggling to bf a 1mo baby while looking after her toddler (who she bf for 11m) asking how the immunilogical benefits of bf will be affected as she plans to begin mixed feeding.

Dr Tom Smith begins "The immune benefits cross over in the first few weeks so you have done enough there already"

What is that supposed to mean? I genuinely do not understand what this is saying but the impression it gives me is that there is no immune benefit to bf after a few weeks? What? No antibodies?

He agree's that keeping some bf is good nutritionally...but offers no advice (or signposting) about how to mixed feed while not compromising supply. I would have though that would have been important this early on.

He does how ever suggest she might wish to consider expressing the bottle feeds as apparently "you can express far faster than your baby can suck." He says a mw or hv will advise on doing this efficiently...surely it isn't ever quicker to express, store, sterilise, bottle feed etc than just bf?.

No mention of trying a sling, that bf leaves a hand free to play with a toddler or that while you clean/make up bottles etc you are with neither child while you can be with both while bf... I'm not saying she should be pressured to bf, but just able to try making it easier before cutting back as it's a difficult decision to reverse.

Argh. Angry

Think i might have to write in Blush

Does anyone have suggestions for evidence i can site re immune benefits (or the rest) ?

OP posts:
FriedEggyAndSlippery · 24/04/2011 07:39

Shock that is crap.

Though why anyone would write to a newspaper for BFing advice is beyond me!

Moulesfrites · 24/04/2011 07:42

Terrible advice! Especially "you can express far faster than your baby can suck"!

Original poster
MoonFaceMamaaaaargh · 24/04/2011 07:43

Sadly cause there is so little support available through the nhs me thinks. People expect it to be there and it just isn't...as we see regularly on this board. Sad

OP posts:
SardineQueen · 24/04/2011 07:46

You can express faster than baby can suck?

SardineQueen · 24/04/2011 07:53

The advice should have been "post your query on MN"!

TruthSweet · 24/04/2011 07:58

Here's the link.

I've already emailed DrDr to complain offer alternative advice he could have given Blush

Even DH was baffled as how anyone who claims to know anything about bfing could think a pump was quicker than a well attached baby.

Plus he didn't talk about babies getting more efficient at feeding, how much work bfing AND expressing for a couple feeds AND ffing would be (expressing & washing up/sterilising are not exactly toddler friendly pass times), how to interact with toddler whilst bfing (which only uses one hand or none if you sling-feed), etc, etc......

Very poor show all round.

Himalaya · 24/04/2011 07:58

'Express far quicker than your baby can suck' ha pull the other one, it's got bells on.

I think he is probably right on the imunological benefits (no references - just that was the way I'd understood it too) - but the nutitionally, practical and hygiene benefits remain.

It sounds like his advice on the practicalities of breastfeeding is way off mark (not really his area of expertise) i.e. The idea that expressing is in any way easier and no mention of the difficulty of reversing the decision to cut down BF.

Go on write in!

domesticslattern · 24/04/2011 08:00

I saw that and threw the magazine across the room swearing.
You can express faster than your baby can suck? WTF. In that case my DD was drinking only a few mls at each feed, as my expressing career (and it went on for weeks, with more than one type of pump) was a total flop.
Still, I had done the first few weeks so that's alright then.
This isn't the first time the Grauniad has published shit bf advice- anyone remember the 'fact' that bf is incompatible with anti-depressants? It's so irresponsible.

Loopymumsy · 24/04/2011 08:45

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Prunnhilda · 24/04/2011 08:57

I read that. She is planning to mix-feed. She wants to do it. SHe didn't sound unhappy about it. He says - fine. And have you thought of feeding expressed milk instead of formula? I thought that was quite positive.
This is someone who is asking for help to breastfeed LESS and you want him to suggest a sling? I think you are being unrealistic.

Loopymumsy · 24/04/2011 09:04

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

domesticslattern · 24/04/2011 09:11

Just to be clear Prunn, it is not about the rights and wrongs of mixed feeding.
It's that in a tiny column there were two untruths: that you can express faster than a baby can suck, and that the benefits of bf are restricted to the first few weeks. That is quite impressive to include so much crap in such a short article.
I mixed fed and the advice on it was terrible, and this is no exception.

EauRouge · 24/04/2011 09:15

What a load of crap! Have also emailed.

RitaMorgan · 24/04/2011 09:18

I don't understand the immune benefits but either - I thought breastfed toddlers were ill less often than non-breastfed toddlers, isn't that an immune benefit or is that more to do with good nutrition/hygiene?

Prunnhilda · 24/04/2011 09:19

These things are not set in stone.
I do understand that it's not a great idea to mix feed before bf is fully established, but for every person for whom that didn't work (eg me) there are plenty for whom it did (quite a few of my friends, and clearly the midwives who advised me grr). So ok it's not advice given in the best way but she wasn't saying how do I carry on breastfeeding? In any case, he suggests expressing, so isn't exactly pushing the idea of formula feeds to replace breastfeeds.

Re the expressing, I certainly found that I could express more efficiently, and again, this isn't that unusual (look at the US where expressing is mainstream - people aren't complaining about inefficiency Confused). So rather than him being wrong, he's only being half-right, in that it might not be the case for her.

I think a lot of you misjudge the obviousness of the party line and how little support there is for it. I'm sad too that there is little support for breastfeeding but huffing and puffing isn't the way forward. Whilst we have a culture where breastfeeding is not the norm and not perceived as easy, you're not going to get anywhere by angrily challenging anyone who doesn't regurgitate the factoids verbatim. If he'd said 'oh you don't need to be doing that anyway, get the baby on a bottle and your life will improve tenfold' I'd understand.

edam · 24/04/2011 09:24

yeah, I saw this and thought 'wtf' about expressing faster than the baby can suck. And the suggestion that you only need to b/f for a month to promote the immune system.

Why do people who know fuck-all about b/f proffer advice? Why didn't he bother to check with a b/f counsellor? Or La Leche League? (I know the answer to this, as it happens, he's a doctor, he thinks he knows everything... But still.)

And why did he not offer a 'for more information call this b/f helpline' link?

I'm a health journalist, if I'm writing something that may influence someone's actions, I don't just check with a random GP, I go to primary sources and expert organisations. Just to make as sure as I possibly can.

edam · 24/04/2011 09:28

Prun, the thing is he's proffering 'advice' that is simply wrong (and could be disastrous). And using his status as a doctor to do it. His inaccurate assertions carry weight because he's a doctor.

This isn't about the pros and cons of mixed feeding - I did it myself. It's about the responsibility of a so-called expert - or on anyone who offers medical advice - to give accurate advice and signpost to further information.

SardineQueen · 24/04/2011 09:28

Thing is if he really said categorically that expressing is more efficient than the baby feeding, then lots of mothers out there who have tried expressing and hardly anything has happened, will be panicking that their babies aren't getting any food. As if the baby gets even less than when they express, and not a lot happens when they express....

That's not good, surely?

I mean it's just not true. I have heard from loads of places that the most efficient thing for extracting milk is a baby. It doesn't even sound right that a machine would be more efficient. If that is the case then it doesn't say a lot for our bodies does it. That a mechanical method does it better than its actual purpose ie straight into a baby.

I just don';t think that medical misinformation should be propogated for any subject. It wouldn't be OK to say that having sex standing up stops you getting pregnant, or that it is usual to catch chicken pox more than once, so why is it OK to say this?

Prunnhilda · 24/04/2011 09:30

After his duff statement about 'you have done enough wrt the immune system' he says that keeping some breastfeeds - which she plans to do will keep things going, and then he suggests expressing feeds rather than using formula.

Look it's an imperfect column but nothing like on a par with the usual crap you hear about gps spouting.

SardineQueen · 24/04/2011 09:30

Is it because breast milk is a food, and people are allowed to write all sorts of balls about food.

Rather than being seen as a medical thing, which obviously you have to be careful and accurate about?

RitaMorgan · 24/04/2011 09:32

Prunnhilda - she wasn't asking how to end breastfeeding either though, and he didn't give her good advice about how to mix feed.

Prunnhilda · 24/04/2011 09:33

OK Edam I agree with that.

Prunnhilda · 24/04/2011 09:35

She didn't ask for advice on how to mix feed, she asked if her baby would continue to benefit from some breastfeeds, and he said yes. And then he went on to suggest that the bottle feeds could be breastmilk. I appreciate that saying she'd done enough immunologically was wrong, but really, this was not the worst response it could have been.

TruthSweet · 24/04/2011 10:06

But the only reason she wanted to move to bottle feeding was because she wanted to spend more time with her toddler.

How is anything he suggested in keeping with that aim? If she said I am trapped by bfing/I hate bfing fully but want to keep one or two feeds/I am contemplating stopping then what he suggested might be a bit better but still inaccurate.

TruthSweet · 24/04/2011 10:14

Oh forgot to say why slings were mentioned - if you can bf in a sling then you have two hands to use on toddler taming/playing rather than the 0 hands you have if you are expressing/bottle feeding (unless you bottle prop which is a major no-no).

Even if you don't manage bfing in a sling you still have one hand free to cuddle/turn pages in a book/work the remote/push toy cars around the floor.

Plus most babies get quicker at feeding as they get older and if she was worried the length of feeds surely get positioning/attachment checked would be the better option to make sure baby was able to feed as effectively as possible.