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Infant feeding

Get advice and support with infant feeding from other users here.

Original poster

Struggling with 10 day growth spurt - help!

34 replies

PussinJimmyChoos · 10/04/2011 20:18

DS2 is two weeks tmw. He's been having a growth spurt since Thursday and I have been feeding constantly - have barely moved from the sofa except for toilet breaks as I know the best way to ride out a growth spurt is to keep feeding to up supply. He will cry, latch on, suck for 5 mins or so and then fall asleep, wake up, cry, latch and so on - which I've persevered with. Although he's latched on properly, I don't always hear the deep gulps that I get in the night time feed when my boobs have had a couple of hours rest and are fuller so unsure if he's actually getting much at each feed

However, its got to pitch point this evening and he was screaming with hunger even when he was on the breast. I got very distressed and gave him 3oz formula as couldn't bear to think he was hungry.

How best to deal with this? I know supplementing is not advised during a growth spurt but just could not see him rooting so frantically, crying etc

When I squeeze my boobs manually, milk does appear so there is something there, just not sure its sustaining him!

Plenty of wet/dirty nappies btw

OP posts:
Original poster
PussinJimmyChoos · 10/04/2011 20:44

.

OP posts:
RitaMorgan · 10/04/2011 21:08

If he's been feeding and sleeping on and off all day, it might be that he was franticly overtired this evening rather than screaming in hunger. If it gets to the point where you're both distressed, can you hand him over to his dad to take him for a walk/drive? Sometimes it's easier to start again once everyone has calmed down.

sh77 · 10/04/2011 21:39

Sounds like cluster feeding - very normal and it will pass quickly. DS is nearly 5 weeks and I went through exactly the same - it was really tough and distressing.

Rita gave good advice re handing him over to someone else. I think that DS associates me with feeding and little else at the mo. He tends to settle much easier with DH and then I start again with feeding when he is calm.

My DS feeds a lot anyway and I have found it really tough getting anything done. The mums on this thread suggested i get a moby wrap to carry him around him. It is excellent as he falls asleep quicker and for longer after a feed. So, do try to get a good sling/carrier.

Original poster
PussinJimmyChoos · 10/04/2011 21:45

I've got a Karime sling that I'm getting to grips with atm so hoping to use that within next few days or so - had a c section so am a bit tender in the tummy area still

I do hand him over to DH and he sometimes settles but if not, DH passes him back and I just latch him on. He doesn't suck for very long though, even though I tickle him etc - I think he is knackered from all the feeding he's done in the day time.

His middle of the night feeds are much better - deep long sucks etc and he's very contented afterwards - not sure why he can't be like this in day! Hmm

I love b'feeding but this cluster feeding lark is blardy hard work - I barely have time to pee and eat let alone anything else!

OP posts:
Original poster
PussinJimmyChoos · 11/04/2011 09:27

Bump for the am crowd

He woke at 4.30am and I have fed constantly from both boobs since then - he still didn't seem satisfied. His little eyes were all red from tiredness and although I kept tickling him to encourage him to keep sucking, there came a point where that didn't even work any more

Resorted to 2oz formula in the end...am getting quite agitated with it all because I know that topping up is detrimental to my supply but cannot see how else to manage it - he's been cluster feeding since Thursday and I am knackered and also have a nearly 5yr old DS to think about as although he has DH to entertain him, he does still want his mummy, although I do try to do activities that I can b'feed while doing them eg crafts, reading etc

OP posts:
RitaMorgan · 11/04/2011 09:36

Why are you tickling him to keep sucking? Does he want to go to sleep?

tiktok · 11/04/2011 09:57

:( Sorry things are difficult, Puss.

You don't say if your little boy is gaining weight and producing several soft yellow poos each day. If the answer is 'yes' on both counts (and you have already said 'yes' to the nappies), then concerns about whether he is getting enough are almost certainly unnecessary....can you get him weighed if he has not been weighed recently?

Nothing in what you say indicates he is not feeding well, though. Will it help to think of breastfeeding as far, far more than 'milk into baby = hunger sated" ? Breastfeeding is his way of connecting with you and staying close to you. I am not a fan of the concept of 'growth spurts' at all - it's definitely true that babies will go through periods where they feed a lot, and this tends to ease off, and one of the functions of this extra feeding is to stimulate more milk....and they may grow more as a result :) But babies go through periods where they feed a lot just because they are babies :) and don't function to a predictable schedule; they may need extra contact because of their emotional and psychological and social needs. So frequent feeding, with very short gaps only when the baby slows down his sucking or has a short nap, is normal.

Giving formula undermines the physical side of breastfeeding massively - and because it tends to 'knock the baby out' it means the baby sleeps longer and this gives a totally spurious idea that the baby 'needed' the formula.

I think you are assessing your breastfeeding effectiveness by how long he sleeps and trying to get him to breastfeed for longer by tickling him to stay awake is not going to be helpful, sorry....if he needs to sleep, let him sleep :) He's two weeks old! He should be allowed to follow what his body tells him to do.

Honestly, a period of going with the flow, letting him feed when he wants to, sleep when he wants to, is less exhausting than trying to get him to sleep/get him to stay awake/get him to feed 'better'/get him to take a bottle etc etc

I suspect your life would be easier, and you and the baby would be happier, if you just let him be a newborn :) Yes, you'll need help and support from your DH and a bit of patience and tolerance from your 5 year old - but this period lasts a short time :)

tiktok · 11/04/2011 09:58

Too many :) :) :)....sorry!

japhrimel · 11/04/2011 11:17

I'd agree that trying to keep him awake is probably counter-productive. Over-tiredness always meant more cluster feeding for DD.

Original poster
PussinJimmyChoos · 11/04/2011 13:48

Thanks for the replies Smile

I was told by a friend that tickling them to keep them sucking when they fall asleep after 5mins on the breast is the thing to do and am sure have read before that some mums are told to do the stripping off/skin to skin thing when they keep falling asleep on the boob, which is something I have not done as I can see how tired he is and that he needs to sleep so haven't done much more than tickle

I do realise he is just a baby and he needs to be near me etc and I have been more than happy to have that and since he has been born, during the day, the best part of his time has been spent either on me, DH or my mum but with the cluster feeding since Thurs, I have just being feeling that my supply is crap and not filling him up and that the short nursing times before he falls asleep is not giving him the hind milk

Was thinking of not offering formula at all tonight and just riding it out and seeing if that makes any difference to things.....

OP posts:
Original poster
PussinJimmyChoos · 11/04/2011 13:50

ps lots of soft yellow poos and wet nappies

He was supposed to be weighed today but midwife has been called to an emergency home birth and coming tmw instead. He feels heavier though!

OP posts:
eversoslightlytired · 11/04/2011 14:01

are you offering the same boob after he wakes up? If he is only feeding for 5 minutes at a time and then falling asleep it could be that if you are swapping boobs straight away he is only getting the thinner stuff and not the hind milk and therefore not filling up. Keep offering the same boob until you are sure there cant be much more in there and then offer the other if he still hungry. (I always hand express before a feed to see if there is any more in there!).

Original poster
PussinJimmyChoos · 11/04/2011 14:05

Am offering the same boob. Only time I swap boobs is when he's fed for at least 35mins from one, had a wind and a nappy change and still seems hungry. Its worked fine some nights and he's been very contented after, but obviously now with the cluster feeding, its all a bit up in the air

OP posts:
RitaMorgan · 11/04/2011 14:08

I disagree with eversoslightlytired - no need to try to "engineer" the baby getting the hindmilk. Milk from an emptier breast is higher in fat anyway, so feeding frequently from both breasts means the baby will be getting fatty milk. Plus, there is always milk there, breasts can't run out.

Stripping down/keeping awake is sometimes necessary with jaundiced babies - I had to do this with my ds for a while in between sessions in a light box! If you have a normal healthy baby though just let him sleep.

If he's not slept properly since Thursday then maybe he is overtired and is sucking to get to sleep - I'd try going for a long drive/walk with the pram/sling to get a decent nap of a couple of hours.

RitaMorgan · 11/04/2011 14:11

This article is very good for explaining the hindmilk issue - Foremilk, Hindmilk and a lot of confusion

tiktok · 11/04/2011 14:13

No - sorry, that is wrong about not swapping breasts.

No one needs worry abut 'the thinner stuff' and not hindmilk - it is only in very rare and unusual cases that anyone needs to engineer the quality of milk in this way, or deliberately keep their baby on longer until hand expressing reveals nothing there....some mothers (most) will always have some milk.

Most women will manage to bf just fine even if they are doing all this faffing with keeping the baby one one side only and expressing to see if there is some left - but what they are doing is irrelevant!

Breastfeeding needs to be done in response to the baby - not in response to the clock, not in response to what hand expressing reveals and not with any worry about fore and hindmilk.

Most newborns do best having both breasts every feed - with cluster feeds this means swapping backwards and forwards in response to what the baby seems to want to do. This is also the best way to stimulate a good breastmilk supply.

No one needs worry about their baby drilling down to the hindmilk. Milk changes in fat content with the amount of milk in the breast: lots and lots of milk = proportionately less fat; less and less milk = proportionately more fat.

But it does not matter - as long as the baby is fed responsively and is swapped to the other side when he indicates he needs to be swapped over, by his behaviour, and not by the clock!

Puss - you might find if you change what you are doing your baby might be a bit more settled, but he still may want to be close to you most of the time :)

Original poster
PussinJimmyChoos · 11/04/2011 14:13

He's slept a lot today - after the 2 oz formula this am, he slept from 10am to 1pm. He's on me now but has fallen asleep with boob in mouth and although has stopped sucking, he's reluctant to let me remove it, bless!

OP posts:
tiktok · 11/04/2011 14:13

My post was to eversoslightly - Rita, we Xposted :)

eversoslightlytired · 11/04/2011 15:17

just following what my HV told me

tiktok · 11/04/2011 15:27

Not your fault, eversoslightly - HVs frequently get this wrong :(

eversoslightlytired · 11/04/2011 16:15

oh ok.

Original poster
PussinJimmyChoos · 11/04/2011 17:08

Arghh....gave him a good hr on the boobs and then thought would be ok to attempt a 10min trip with DH to pick up DS1....got 100metres down the road, he went hysterical, had to turn right back and put him on the boob where he sucked for 10 mins and then promptly fell asleep

:-P

OP posts:
RitaMorgan · 11/04/2011 17:33

Did you have him in a sling? Sounds like a baby that needs lots of physical closeness to relax.

Original poster
PussinJimmyChoos · 12/04/2011 16:55

I have a sling but am still a bit tender from c section so haven't used it yet (its a Karime btw so can b'feed in it)

I could scream today...HV came and DS2 has put on 150g which is great. He fed while she was there and she could see how quickly he fell asleep on the breast after starting the feed. She said it seems like he's snacking as he's too exhausted to feed properly - which I agree with as he hardly slept yesterday - he fed constantly for just over 12 hrs, he was overtired and his little eyes were so red.

She suggested giving him some formula so that he could sleep, I could sleep and it would give my boobs time to refill and that he would have energy for a good feed when he woke up and that an exhausted mother and overtired baby is not good for supply issues either

I told her that I thought boobs didn't actually needed to refill, that there was always milk there and that it was a supply and demand issue and a case of use it or lose it...I'm so frustrated as I'm stressed about my long term supply but at same time, it is just not sustainable to have DS2 feeding on me constantly like this - and its not because I don't want to do it, I have no problem with it if I didn't have DS1 to consider. I can't even get out without DS2 screaming for a feed, even if I have just fed him before I attempt to go out

OP posts:
RitaMorgan · 12/04/2011 17:05

Rather than giving formula, I'd get your DH to take the baby out for a long walk in the sling - this was a godsend for me in the early days, ds would feed constantly when we were at home but out with his dad he'd go 3 hours!

Sounds to me like it might not just be about hunger with your ds, but needing lots of physical comfort.

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