2 wk old Babe has put on 11 oz in three and a half days

[princesspeahead]

i.e. since I went on the bottle. I was clearly completely starving him before - I'm obviously delighted that he is now thriving but slightly crippled with guilt about being so crap at breastfeeding that he should have been so underweight.

He still has 9 oz to go before he regains his birthweight, but at this rate he'll probably have done it by tomorrow morning.

Aughghghghghghgh

poor bunnyrabbit, no advice but lots of sympathy. keep a box of tissues by the bed!

and as an aside, I do find it very odd when people say "how do you think starving women in africa breastfeed"? ummm, they generally have malnourished, starving babies. not something we all want to emulate, surely?

I didn't eat for a week (not out of choice) and still bf ds. He didn't put on much weight that week, but heaps when I could eat again. That's what that extra pregnancy weight is for. Starving African's presumably don't have that extra to rely on. On the plus side I found my doctor took treatment far more seriously because he was worried about ds and I absolutely refused to formula feed.

Thank you so much for all the kind words and sorry to high jack you thread PPH.

Had the BFC from the NCT in today and she helped out lots, but my nipples are so cracked and sore, I think any position will hurt at the moment. I'm going to ask her if we can meet up again on Wednesday and will talk to her about an electric pump.

DS has fed twice since my last post, both from me, and seems fine. None of the temper tantrums of the last few days. He was peacefully asleep from 7.45 till 10.00 when I fed him, and after a burp and nappy change went straight back to sleep!! (both time on my chest I'm afraid).

The HV wrote that DS seems hungry in his book. I think it was the antibiotics, but then hey, what do I know, I'm only his mummy!!

PPH, which formula are you using?

Yours, much more relaxed but with very sore nipples and a massive right boob,

BR

Bunnyrabbit, have you tried using nipple shields? I know they really helped me at the beginning when my nipples were really sore and everytime they cracked.

My missus used them for months - it was my job to sterilise them - her boob and bubba's mouth were sharing thrush between themselves whenever one wasn't used. They're annoying, but they can mean breastfeeding can work - I think we used them for about 6 months in total. Took the boy a couple of days to get used to it, but it was worth it.

OK - well if I may I'll put my BF counsellor hat on and clarify some of the statements.... if I may

• cracked nipples : use lansinoh (far better than Kamillosan) to heal them. Baby should continue feeding BUT attachmenet must be right otherwise you keep making the problem. A BFC should help you with that... maybe show you different ways of holding the baby too. You should practice attachment with her. If you decide to use nipple shields (I used them too with DS) you need to be informed that they really have to be used with caution because they do reduce the amount of milk the baby can get - it isn't a long term solution (certainly not one for thrush - sorry!) - it can also lead in some cases to nipple confusion. Personnally I think they are great short term solution IF they make BF less painful (but that's not even a guarantee) but you must fix the attachment and positioning too.

• Thrush... is to be cured by treating both mother and baby at the same time. It does require that EVERYTHGING is sterilised (and bras washed at high temp or ironed)

• Antibiotics - some of them do affect milk supply so once they are finished you should increase the amount of time doing skin-to-skin or offering breast a bit more often - to rebuild your supply (this is not a 10 day exercise... one day of this can often be enough) - and of course AB can lead to thrush - this last sentence isn't meant for BR

From yout last post BR - I think BF should be working well for you....

We tried the below for 2 months to no effect - it was a nightmare, and the only solution was the nipple shields.

"- Thrush... is to be cured by treating both mother and baby at the same time. It does require that EVERYTHGING is sterilised (and bras washed at high temp or ironed) "

So how did it go away ?

washing your bras at high temperature messes up the elasticity- try soaking them in milton and then washing them normally. It'll bleach any colour out but they'll still be nice to wear afterwards.

THe electric pump I was recommended was the medela one - Boots sell thm at about £40 I think. I think the amount you can express is irrelevant to the amount you can make for your baby. I never did get more than about 4oz from expressing yet my 9mo son feeds contentedly.

Eek - that's a good suggestion
You would not need to wash your bras at high temp for months though - (unless you are Tom's wife )
If you get rid of the thrush in a week... then it's not too long.

I had the Medela pump too - very good but a bit noisy - still better (IMO) than a hand held one.

Princess - you ask about the Africans who have emaciated babies. Mothers on marginal diets in the developing world made enough milk for their babies - this is well-documented. Their babies don't starve. It is the 'weanlings' who are emaciated - babies who are no longer fully breastfed, and who rely on other foods which are in short supply.

Mothers who are literally starving and who have grown up being malnourished have serious difficulty in maintaining a milk supply. Pregnancy depletes their physical reserves and they begin motherhood under-equipped, nutritionally.

Most mothers in the developing world are not as badly nourished as this, of course, and manage just fine.

Breastfeeding survives, and so do babies, in the most extraordinary conditions. Mothers bf in the famine in Holland in the second world war; they bf in the concentration camps; they bf during the seige of Sarajevo in the 1990s. What we know seems to indicate that it takes a long time of chronic poor nutrition to affect bf, not something that applies in the UK. Chronic poor or under-nutrition leads to a higher risk of pregnancy going wrong in some way, and of course, sub-fertility (the reason why anorexic women, ballet dancers and long-distance runners find their periods stop - nature is protecting them from falling pg in the first place). If you have managed to bring a baby to term, nature generally arranges it that you have the physical resources to bf, unless your circumstances really are knife -edge (chronic under-nutrition followed by starvation conditions after the birth).

Hope that answers the question

Yes there was an interesting story recently about unearthed remains of a medieval village, which showed that despite appalling living conditions, and a truly dismal diet, young babies thrived beautifully on breastmilk, but when feeding stopped at around two they began to succumb to the same diseases and deficiencies of the adults around them. I think a lot of what we think are tiny babies in famine zones are often much older toddlers who haven't been able to grow. I seem to remember reports on the news saying - "this child is four years old" about what looked like a young baby.

Bunnyrabbit, don't worry too much about what your HV says in your book. I recently looked in ds's book and read her comments from the early days - it's as if she was writing about a different mother and baby altogether. Most odd.

that's really interesting pupuce, thanks.
although a bit bemused why my question about that should have been deleted from the thread - ????!!! mysterious.
bunnyrabbit, i'm using Aptamil for no particularly good or informed reason except a friend told me that when she mixed fed she found that it was more compatible (ie less throwing up) than when she mixed fed using SMA. And it has LCPs in it although god knows whether that is necessarily a good thing or not, if it was so crucial I suspect all the other formulas would have them too. Trouble about the no publicity ban on formulas is that you also ge no information about them, but most people seem to think they are much of a muchness. Maybe others will have a more informed view?

oh no, how wierd! My question has appeared back again!

Am I hallucinating? Time for a little nap I think

Good stuff. I have Aptimel in cartons so it's ready prepared. This should do me for the moment. If I carry on breast feeding....

BR

PPH my dd is on Aptimal and she has only thrown up 3 times in the first year. Maybe that's why. Have to say was expecting house swimming in vomit from friends' tales but hasn't happened to me.

hmmm, that's interesting. lucky choice then, perhaps!
I must say I do find it irritating that it doesn't come in a big tin though, those little packets are a pain in the bum

PPH - just a point of interest for you. I helped a friend whose baby was hospitalised because of weightloss and she had to give formula at every feed. The weight ofcourse started to go on, but she still wanted to breastfeed. The gain of weight on formula proved she did not have enough milk. What she did was learn to express to stimulate her milk supply. Her baby actually slept all night so she set an alarm and woke her at night to breastfeed her. Once she had been expressing (hand expressing was the most effective), she started to reduce the amount of formula she gave by 1/2 - 1 oz per feed. She then managed to wean her baby off formula all together but continued a bottle of EBM on a daily basis.
If you would like to try continuing breastfeeding then that is an option for you. You will have the confidence of knowing that you are not starving your baby and at the same time increase your milk supply. Can't recommend Domperidone enough.
However, if you are happy to stop B/F then just ignore the above. Best wishes, mears.