Timing night feeds - does this sound ok?

[RememberToPlaywiththeKids]

I am having to set the alarm to wake myself up to wake my 7 week old baby to feed as we need to keep his calories up before he has heart surgery in the next months (no date given yet).

He is currently between the 50 and 75th centiles for height and weight and seems to be doing very well.

He feeds brilliantly in the day (1.5 - 2 hourly) but poorly at night unless I only feed him twice and even then it's a bit hit and miss as to whether he'll feed properly. They are always lighter than usual and sometimes i spend an hour achieving very little e.g. milk and bed at 7pm with another 2 feeds (e.g. 10:30pm and 3:30pm) and then another on waking any time from 6-7am...

Now - I'm finding that I'm not able to get to bed until 11:30pm by the time he's fed and winded etc (lengthy process!) and then if the next feed is at 3:30am, he tends to wake at 6. If it's at 4am or just after, he will go through until 7ish. This is obviously better for me sleep wise as it increases my sleep opportunity by an hour, which I relish as I have 3 under 4!

BUT does it sound ok to leave him from 11:15 to 4am without food?? It means that over a whole 24 hour period, we are losing possibly one feed due to feeding him at 7am rather than 6am.

If it wasn't for the heart condition, this wouldn't even be a consideration - my DD was sleeping 6 hours + at night from about 5 weeks.

Are you bfing? It might be easier to get more in him at night with a bottle of ebm instead.

I am BFing and have tried a bottle but it seems to be a genuine appetite thing - he just won't take any more than he wants regardless of the method of delivery.

although i tried the bottle in the day, not at night.

what are you thinking in terms of timing? or just the same but give a bottle instead of breast?

I would be more inclined to try to squeeze another one in during the day than wake a sleeping baby! :)

well i guess that's what a 6am start does sort of doesn't it? I'm just finding it a bit hard running on 5.5 hours of broken sleep a night.... perhaps that's just what I must do!

Are you co-sleeping? If you don't feel comfortable with him in the bed with you maybe a bedside cot would be better? (you can convert most cots into one) that way you wouldn't have to get up to feed him. If you can master feeding lying down you can sleep while you feed - very handy! :)

unfortunately that's not possible. he has to be fed sitting bolt upright and winded every couple of minutes otherwise all the milk comes out again! my other 2 were the same (sigh).

I hate to bang on about this guy again, but if you google Dr Jack Newman his website gives his email address for specific and unusal questions which he welcomes. I got an answer overnight (he is in Canada). I am sure he would give you his opinion. Good luck!

Im currently breast feeding my 5 week old. He generally feeds alot from tea time through till early evening. Goes to sleep around 9 till 4.30am ish and then feeds for about 20 mins,then back down till about 7ish.I change his nappy whilst he still sleeps. This is completely foreign to me as ds1 was constantly feeding, and I have thought should I be waking him to feed him. But he too has good weight gain,so he must be getting everything he needs. It just feels strange as i'm used to a constant feeder who was up loads in the night.
Obviously this will all change and I will soon be suffering from extreme retina burn and live in bobbly leggings,but for now i'm not saying it outloud that he sleeps for a reasonable length of time.

oooh ta - have just emailed though he'll probably say it's a medical problem.... though i have big faith in the MN jury!

LJ - how lovely .
If only I didn't have to set me alarm, I suspect I'd be on to something (sigh)

'my' alarm

Has your doctor actually told you to wake him for feed in the night? I only ask because I would have thought that perhaps letting him get the sleep his natural rhythm demands and demand feeding him might be better for him than waking him for feeds, especially if it allows you to get more sleep (giving your body time to rest, which is good for milk production too I think). 11.15 to 4am isn't a particularly long or unreasonable stretch for a baby this age. I was very lucky with my three as they all slept long stretches at night from a fairly early age, but the fact that they were on a smaller number of feeds a day than some other babies didn't seem to effect their calorie intake as they all had great weight gains. What I am trying to say is that less feeds in a 24hr period does not necessarily = less calories as it might just be that they take bigger feeds when they do feed, and if he is between the 50th and 75th it sounds like his weight gain is good.

Hi yes I've been told that he does need to be woken and I completely understand what you're saying and asked them exactly that! They were just very vague about the frequency of waking but they have threatened a tube down his nose to feed him extra milk if his weight gain isn't satisfactory.

last night was hopless - I spent an hour at 10:30pm and another hour at 3:30am trying to feed him and managed 1-2 mins total at each feed.

The trouble is that I have to wind him very frequently otherwise he's very sick and he seems to find the winding process very soothing and sleep inducing .

You poor thing with the NG tube threat!
My boy was doing 5 hour stretches at night by a month - I was paranoid and regularly tried to wake him up and give him extra feeds...he only ever took a little bit, but then made up for it on his early morning feed. On the odd occasion that I persuaded him to have a bigger feed, he'd compensate by having a smaller feed later on, or skipping a feed altogether...
My point being that I couldn't make him take anything extra, he basically had the same number of feeds (give or take random night time sucks!) with and without me waking him up.
You said your baby is 50-75th centile - has he ever slipped?
I'm sure the worry about the heart surgery changes things, but it does sound to me like your extra night feeds aren't really working out so well...

Poor you, it must be so worrying, I mean everything that you are going through waiting for surgery, not just the threat of tube feeding. But again I would say maybe you should go with what feels right for you both as it doesn't seem to be working to wake him. You say that the tube feeding would only be if his weight gain isn't good. As you don't yet have a hospital date and his current weight is very strong could you go with his natural rhythm for a week and see how his weight gain goes and if it's not what you require return to waking him if needs be?? Good luck with everything.

what you've both said makes total sense and what i've been wondering myself. the only thing is that the minute his weight starts to slide, they will take action, so i can't really afford to experiment I don't think.

I am in no doubt that if he was hungry, he would eat BUT he is a very sleepy baby too and that may or may not be because he has a heart defect and it is possible that his waking trigger is not as lively as other babies and so I really do need to keep on top of it.

It's hard to know really.

Cor, stressful. The boy was mega sleepy as well, so I used to strip him naked so he got cold and ratty and definitely woke up. Wicked mother!
Whatever you do, you've got to feel ok with it, and it sounds like you feel obliged to follow the doc's advice and can put up with the niggling feeling. So, do that and feel superior ;) good luck, especially with the surgery x

Right - i've made a decision based on all your sensible thoughts that mirror mine entirrely so I will be entirely responsible .

For tonight only I won't do a dream feed when i go to bed and will set the alarm for 4am just incase and then see what happens.

I fed him a bit by 11:30pm last night and then he woke himself at 2:30am (for the first time ever) and fed well and then again at 6 and fed well. He never does when I wake him.

I'll report back!

weeeell - i set the alarm for 3am in the end because 7-3 is 8 hours without if he didnt wake (left handed typing here...).

he didn't wake and then fed better than usual but by no means a full feed. in fact i went to the loo first then changed his nappy and was back in bed by 3:20am!

he woke then at 6:45 and one boob was totally engorged and the other was full, so that means he took less milk from me than usual?

i mean

i wouldnt worry too much (although his heart condition must be worrying)

its not unherd of for babies to sleep 11 - 6 / 7am by 8 weeks. Many sleep trained maternity nannies will get a baby into this routine, and some are ready much earlier than others.

Perhaps your baby is one of those? so long as he feeds well in the day, a longer sleep in the night shouldnt harm him at this age, and will probabaly do you the world of good too

There are some healthy babies who do this at that age. (I really hope i have one of those!!!!!!!!)

Of course if the doctor seem to think he needs to feed all night and all day then you need to follow their advice!

Just to add have re-read my post and hope this "There are some healthy babies who do this at that age. (I really hope i have one of those!!!!!!!!)" didnt offend.

I meant i hope my baby is one that manages to sleep through quickly......
I'll be delighted if they do it by 12 weeks! and over the moon if its sooner!

Hey, RememberToPlaywiththeKids - I just caught up with this. About the random boobs - I'd expect things to be a bit wonky for a day or so when you change your feeding pattern. IME it didn't seem to bear any relation to the amount of milk he took at a feed, but was my body responding to changes in timings...always righted itself within 24 hours or so.
How did last night go?x

sorry for not replying nannyl - i lost my own thread .

i think my baby IS one of those babies but i have been told that i do need to do night feeds until his surgery to keep the calories up.

msissa - thats v interesting.

i have decided that he is variable . i woke him at 11pm and 4am and he fed well both times....