Is it possible to have a routine with a BF baby?

[megcleary]

DD is 6wo now and DH and I are keen on starting some routine for evenings night.

Is it possible with a bf baby?

We introduced a bedtime routine early on...massage, bath, breastfeed, bed. Later on we added a story. We started the routine around 6.15pm. Bedtimes always depended on how long my dd fed for...some nights she was in bed at 8pm, other nights she cluster fed till midnight! my point is its never too early to introduce a bedtime routine, just don't be disheartened if your dc isn't in bed for a specific time just yet. This will come in time. I firmly believe that having a strict routine in the evening taught my dd early on the difference between night and day.

Having a routine in place does not mean that you cannot feed on demand. in the early days I found it helpful to offer my dd the breast around 5pm do that her tummy was full enough for her to enjoy her bath etc.

Hth

Agree, no routine, but predictable pattern which DS1 and 2 (DS1 - ff, DS2,bf) both fell into, for bedtime at least. DS2 (7 months) doesn't have set feeding times during the day, completely fed on demand, also doing BLW so not really doing 3 meals a day either. Your LO is still tiny, even ff DS1 didn't even have a pattern till about 8 weeks.

Yes, I had a routine and BF'd too. Regular(ish) feed times, regular nap times, set time for bath and cuddles and story and bed. Late night feed at 10.00-10.30pm either EBM or FF.

I assume that those of you who managed a routine had babies that didn't cluster feed. At that age DD would more or less be clamped on to my boob from 7 pm until 11 pm or later.

Bunbaker Yes, exactly. DS never cluster fed and, weirdly, nor did any other bf babies I know in RL- I only know it exists because of this forum but it seems to be more common than not.

On that basis, I think you can have a routine, but it depends on whether the baby is that sort of baby.

I started bedtime routine (bath, massage, dim lights, feed, cot) around 4 wks- before that he basically slept all the time except when feeding, but DS always went from his 6pm feed to his 10pm feed without waking, so basically we were working around him more than the other way round.

Why couldn't you have a routine that included the cluster feeding though?

I agree Rita, we go through exactly the same routine every night. Feeding is last.

Depends on what you call a routine.. Try to think of it as a pattern first.. (a few close feeds, bath etc) I BF on demand and we still had bedtime from a few weeks.. Ok, maybe they were going to be up again, but then they were in the darkened room where we fed without any real talk or moving about and back to sleep..

Mumofaflumpmp describes a good one, I think.

And cluster feeding won't go on for very long (i don't think either of mine were still cluster feeding at 6 weeks even) so don't make Amy long term decisions based on that.

I had DS in a routine from three weeks, of course its possible. I am still ebf at 7 months. In fact the routine is what made the early weeks/months so easy for me, and DS was sleeping through the night at 9 weeks. In my opinion, getting a young baby into a routine early helps ensure they have the perfect amount of sleep and milk in the day to set them up to sleep at night quickly - which is surely what everybody wants isn't it?

I've heard so many stories of overtired babies come the evening because they haven't been put down for enough naps, or hungry babies that have been snacking all day rather having good, full feeds..etc, etc. Personally, I knew nothing about babies when I had mine and having a book to follow which told me my month old baby really NEEDED to sleep after being awake for an hour and a half was a godsend - because if I hadn't had it, I wouldn't have made him nap, because he would fight sleep. The fact I was trying to get him into a routine meant I was doing everything I could to get him to go to sleep at the right times - babies fight sleep even when they are tired as I'm sure you all know.

IMO a routine and bedtime ritual from a very early age establishes good sleeping habits and is totally possible with breastfeeding as long as you wait until breastfeeding is established, which in my case was about three weeks.

I did a routine with my DS from pretty early on (before 6 weeks) and he was happily BF. Sometimes it worked and sometimes it didn't (particularly around growth spurts) but it worked more than it didn't. We did the boob, bath, boob again, bed from around 6pm-7pm. Then for a while a top-up when he woke up 45 mins later. Then fed again at 10ish.

I did do a daytime routine as well for waking up/naps etc, but not for feeding until he was older.

He was BF until over 12 months, so it seemed to work. Was really nice to start to reclaim evenings as well. As long as you're not expecting it to work every day then it's worth doing.

hattieboomboom

I actually had the opposite problem- daytime naps provided by the routine books (GF and RW) kept him up too long. Even now at 6 mths he struggles to stay awake longer than 2 hrs (prob because when he is awake he's like Tigger on speed). At 6 weeks it was more like an hour.

On balance, I think some elements of having a routine are good- eg once I became the lunchtime nap nazi, the afternoons were transformed from a grizzle fest to quite a pleasant play date opportunity. However, I think it's important that mums take the lead from their babies.

Some of my friend's bf babies fell easily into the "book" routines, but most needed a shorter "nap, feed, activity" cycle.

Thanks for all the advice have decided to write down what she's up to over the next few days and see if a pattern emerges.

I do realise that as soon as I spot one it will change!

Will aim for bedtime and see how it goes.

We have agreed that we are going to try and settle her in her cot but if no luck after half an hour she comes in with us.

I suppose its mainly an attempt to gain an illusion of some control over life really!

You have my sympathy - it is really hard with a bf infant and an older child. DD is 6mo today and DS is 3 next week and it is better, I promise:)

We didn't try forcing DD into a routine - it was actually easier I found to just go with the flow and accept it would be random rather than trying to worry about feed times. We did do 2 things from about 6 weeks though to help her

We followed the Gina Ford advice (not her routine, oh no no no no, no way) that new babies can't go longer than 2 hours without a nap. That has really worked for both of mine - just settled baby in basket or wherever about 2 hours after they have woken up. It is a miracle - baby just settles easily. Meant she had 3 decent naps in the day and wasn't overtired which helped her settle better in the evening.

From 6 weeks, we also gave her a bath with DS and got her ready for bed then she came back down with us - some nights she was up feeding until we went to bed, other nights she would drp off around 9ish. By 12 weeks she would come back down with us but fall asleep at 9 and sleep until 7 no problem, so then we started putting her down after bath at 7.30-8 and she would go at least 10 hours without a feed.

It all went to pot at 4mo when she hit that 16 week growth spurt/developmental thing, but at 6mo we're only one one night waking now - mainly because she is oinly just on solids so quite hungry - and a good solid bedtime routine with no fuss.

Be kind to yourself and don't worry about your older DC. My DS has survived what seemed to me huge neglect (given he was the previous only focus of my attention) and gets much more attenyion now DD is older.

How about converting your cot to a bedside cot if co-sleeping is worrying you? It's pretty much as simple as removing one side, then raising the mattress, usually by drilling an extra set of holes in the cot sides. Move mattress to cover the hap and block the far side with rolled up towels.

get a bedside cot, that way you can feed her to sleep and she's right beside you, but you have more space and won't be so nervous about squashing her.

don't forget this would still be really hard even if you were ff - two is hard

as others say 6 weeks is too soon - 3/4 months is more like it for seeing patterns emerge in babies' feeding/sleeping ime

i have always went to bed with dd2 at same time as dd1's afternoon nap and feed her to sleep for a morning nap too. her routine started to emerge at around 4months ish, and from that age i have tried to keep her awake in between morning and afternoon naps and bedtime. she has gone down for the night earlier and earlier as the months go by and now at 7 months wakes twice a night, 11pm and 5am.

by all means have a wind-down routine or whatever you want but do not get frustrated if baby doesn't do what you want to when you want her to do it - that way madness lies. just keep at it and you'll get there eventually as your baby matures. good luck!

oops i see bedside cot already mentioned

having read more posts here i strongly disagree that your baby will sleep through the night because you "get" him or her into a routine. my first slept three 2 hour naps a day and 11 hours straight at night from about 3 months. her sister wakes through the night, it's so hard to get her to nap for more than 45 mins. they are all different, your baby is not sleeping 12 hours straight because of your parenting or GF book people!

Looking at the day as having a repeating pattern to it rather than a timed routine was quite helpful for me - I think the Baby Whisperer books suggest a 3 hourly cycle of Eat-Awake-Sleep but that was hopelessly optimistic for my baby who fed more frequently than that and fell asleep at the breast every time I didn't get an opportunity to put him down for a nap awake until he was about 5 months. However he had a pattern of Eat-Sleep-Awake throughout the day and I'd try to have him awake by 5pm for a bedtime at 7pm.

petisa - i don't think anyone has said their babies are sleeping because of a book! i mentioned some useful advice i got from a book, that's all. All babies are different, of course, but if that means we can't learn things from one baby or a book and pass it on to possibly help parents with another baby, then there's no point to mumsnet is there :)

I do agree with you strongly on the not stressing about it - madness does indeed follow from that. The baby will do it when he or she is good and ready, but a few 'cues' from the parents can help a little.

Bunbaker - I had a cluster feeder and we basically implemented the bits of what we wanted as a bedtime routine that were possible - so upstairs for bath and getting ready for bed and even story with brother if she was in a good mood, but then brought her back downstairs for cluster feeding marathons... When cluster feeds got a bit more like just one big feed rather than bobbing on and off, I would keep the baby upstairs and just feed her lying down on my bed and then into basket. And from about 4mo it has become a normal feed and straight into bed.

"having read more posts here i strongly disagree that your baby will sleep through the night because you "get" him or her into a routine."

You are so right petisa. DD was a small baby - she weighed less than six pounds at birth. She lost ten percent of her birthweight in the first three weeks, so I had to feed her every two to three hours. There was no way she was ready to sleep through the night at six weeks because her stomach was too small to accommodate more than three or four hours worth of milk. She cluster fed until about 12 weeks. I can't remember exactly because it was nearly 11 years ago now.

I am not expecting sleeping through night just want to reclaim some evening for DH and I.

my bf isnt in a routine as such but he'll have a pattern to his feeds. Wakes around 9 and then have a feed between 10-11 then a feed again 1-2ish then again 4-5 ish etc etc

Tortilla, I think Petisa was referring to my smug post actually...

Yes hattie sorry it was you! Tbf when I only had dd1 and she was sleeping for hours on end like clockwork, I did think it was me getting her into a routine wot did it and was terribly smug about it

OP no harm doing bedtime routine and feeding your dd to sleep upstairs in the eve and seeing what happens, but I have to say when dd2 was 6 weeks old I was feeding her non-stop from about 8pm til midnight. Dd2 only really started going upstairs earlier in the eve at 4 months or so, but they really are all different though, so maybe yours will settle in the eves much sooner. I enjoyed those long evening bf sessions though, dd2 was oblivious to what was going on around her mostly, so I loved having lots of biscuits tea and watching telly and MNing to keep me sane.

Oh tortilla I agree and found the two hour rule thing v useful with my first especially, though I got it from the Baby Whisperer I think. If I'd followed it with dd2 I'd have gone insane though, she was permanently overtired and wouldn't bloody go to sleep! Afraid of missing something. Four month growth spurt was hellish. Not too bad now at 7 months...