Nursing strike over a week now - need to stop BF help

[anonMum2]

We decided early last week that I'd gradually move from mostly BF to mostly FF. The very day we gave DS2(6 weeks) a full bottle, his reflux became very apparent and he has since refused BF, nearly all the time now. I am still trying to put him whenever I can but he screams. Sometimes I put him on whilst he's asleep, but after 20 minutes his stomach gurgles, he goes wild and refuses to feed after that. He then screams with hunger and pain for an hour plus until i give in and give him a bottle, which he still fusses over but drinks a lot better due to better bottle-feeding position. I then have to wait for his next feed to BF, which he would then reject again.

Over the last week I've been getting more engorged with many painful lumps and leaky boobs as DS2 refuses to feed. I've been hand expressing which doesn't work that well, and pump expressing produces only a couple of oz (not enough compared to what DS2 actually takes). I think it stimulates more than it extracts so I'm producing more milk for the next feed and the older milk is still left there, that's what it feels like anyway as I get more engorged with each express.

Are there any tips on getting rid of these lumps and bumps without feeding/expressing? Any magic potions or cabbage leaf type thing? Thank you.

Hot flannel compress and a HOT bath. I found when I had mastitis that massaging (hard, it does hurt, but seems to work) the lumps towards the nipple in a hot (as hot as you can stand) bath worked well. The heat stimulates your let down, and that should offer some relief.

Remember, they will get full, knotty and painful before your body realises the milk is no longer required. Never take off more than an oz, ideally just enough to make yourself comfy.

Good luck!

Not what you asked for, but couldn't his reflux be linked to the formula? I know you said he's on nursing strike, but maybe different positions/techniques for bfing could help with that?

It sounds very very much like a cow's milk protein problem to me. If so, I think you might benefit from professional help because he will need either a) continued breastfeeds or b) a specialist formula with either partially broken-down milk proteins or a completely milk-free formula (Not soy). A skilled BF professional may be able to help you to coax him back to the breast if that's what you decide. Otherwise, try the GP for specialist formula on prescription but be warned it doesn't taste very nice and sometimes babies (like mine!) don't much care for it. In which case you might have to flavour it .

have you spoken to a bf counsellor or hv about the reflux and possible allergies etc? usually bf is better than formula for reflux and allergies so you might want to get more info before deciding to stop bf.

if you express a lot of milk, you're right, your body is stimulated to produce more, so to stop producing milk you'll have to express only the minimum to relieve discomfort. again, a bf counsellor can also advise on ways to stop bf as well as keeping it going, so they might be worth a call

Thanks for the tips.

Have tried many positions unfortunately. :(

HV and BF counsellor all knew the problems I was having but didn't realise it was reflux, I wish they did before I increased DS2's formula from around 14oz to now around 25oz. I don't have support or time to increase my milk supply again - was told off by DH for even daring to rethink BF when I said about buying a wedge feedding pillow that helps BF reflux babies. I wasn't doing that well BF before anyhow, so it's very difficult for me to justify going back to BF.

Have since spoken to HV yesterday, who asked us to take gaviscon(didn't work, projectile vomitting late last night) and ask for more medication if needed. No one has suggested anything else. I was thinking about trying comfort milk to see if partially broken down milk protein helps, but DH's opinion is that DS2 is putting on weight, is sleeping 2-4 hours at a time and looks healthy so no need to rock the boat. TBH I'm a bit wary of trying something new too.

When pg with DS2 I had visions of a perfectly happy baby BF with lots of milk. Shame it's come to this with BF problems, nursing strike, reflux etc.

You're not alone anon, I am in the same boat (except stopped BF at 5 weeks)

If he has a cow's milk issue the comfort milks probably aren't going to cut it. It's a hard call though as it can be hard work to wean them on to properly hypoallergenic formula. On the other hand if it is a cow's milk issue then the reflux will likely not be well-controlled until cow's milk is out of his diet. It's not a question of rocking the boat.I don't want to alarm you but we didn't really press the medical folks hard enough at the start and DS now has problems feeding and as for his sleep....I would ask for a referral to a pediatric gastro.

narmada did you stop at 5 weeks because your DS refused to feed due to reflux or just decided to stop? I put DS2 on cartons today which strangely seems to help as he then seems happier to BF on the next feed. I've also tried gripe water (don't know why I never thought of trying before I tried IG) and he seems a lot better at feeding from the bottle, though he still sicks up tiny bit of milk, he seems slightly more comfortable. Not sure if it's just that he's having a good day today. Does reflux get worse as they get older, i.e. more weeks old before they learn to sit/get weaned? I keep thinking DS2's reflux isn't that bad but so afraid it's going to get a lot worse.

I'm now down to 2 BF per day(if I'm lucky and he latches on) and thankfully with hot bath/shower expressing I'm feeling so much more comfortable now. I wish I could stop BF a lot more slowly and stop BF at 2-3 months, or more but it's not to be.

why is it not to be? if you and he are happy with the two feeds a day, can you not keep it up?

we think dt2 has reflux. his sicking up has got worse as he got bigger, but his unhappiness has got less, and he now enjoys being fed to sleep, when between 1-2 months he would not even feed for comfort. swings and roundabouts, but I prefer the washing to the screaming.

MamaChocoholic How's DT2 doing with Ranitidine? Has it improved a lot? What about the feeding?

I would love keep going, a few extra weeks, days even! But DS2 just won't latch or stay on. This morning he had just 20minutes, I heard his tummy make a funny noise and true enough the squirms and screams started, he then threw up some milk and refused to go back on. Guess he was just having a good-ish day yesterday.

Having said that, DS2 wasn't on cartons the last 3 evening/night feeds and he was awful this morning, so will be trying all cartons tonight to see if it's just co-incidence.

I may be wrong, but I think the cartons are ultra-heat treated and therefore the cow's milk protein is rendered very slightly more digestible.

I stopped BF at 5 wqeeks for a combo of reasons. I got really, really bad PND and was very nearly hospitslised; DS's feeding issues made him a nightmare to feed and so on......

However, and I do not want to frighen you, the situation w e're in now is pretty unenviable. DS is suspected of having issues with cow's milk as well as reflux of physical cause, he won't willingly drink any of the hypo formulas (not even flavoured) and he has developed a feeding aversion which just seems to be getting worse :(. He's now 5 months.

Sorry, that last post wasn't that helpful, was it ??!

What I meant was, if your DS is fine on cartoned milk, hurray, there's a solution that suits you all.

If not, then it really might be easier not to ditch the BF completely, and keep some BM on tap in case you need to reconsider later -e.g., keeping exclusive expressing and feeding EBM as a kind of reserve strategy should formula not prove suitable in the long term. The reason I say this is because with DS, I did not believe he had a milk allergy at all at first. He didn't seem too bad on formula at all for about 5 weeks, then it all started to go a bit dowhill from there. Now we are really stuck, and I so don't want anyone else to be in our situation if it's avoidable. I do absolutely know what you mean about how difficult directly BF a refluxy baby can be tho, with DS he was such a fussy feeder I could not establish/ maintain a good enough supply without supplementary pumping, which was a total PITA.

When you pumped, was it a double electric pump or hand-held? I always found the former about twice as efficient as the hand-held jobbies.

narmada I know what you mean. Even though my official plan is to stop and I've promised DH I'm only feeding him 3-4 times a day, I've actually been trying to put DS2 onto BF when I can(not easy with hyper DS1). Back of my mind I'm also thinking... what if I need to either get back to BF or at least give him EBM.

I'm using medela swing. TBH, with reflux and another child to look after, even with bottle feeding I have absolutely no time to express. Loads of people I know must think I'm so disorganised and never have time as no one I've spoken to have had babies with reflux, but guess if they've never experienced having babies with reflux, they don't really know what it's like? Sorry, speaking like this having had DS1 who was such an easy baby who slept through the night from 5 weeks and used to drink a bottle in 5 minutes rather than 1+ hour, I would've really have understood then what it's like.

Guess I'm just trying to justify why I'm such a rubbish tired sleep deprived mum.. :)

anon, my dt2 doesn't sound nearly as badly affected as your and narmada's dcs. I've also now had an easy baby (dt1) and a needy but non-refluxy ds1. looking after dt2 has been so hard, so full on. I'm sure you are a tired sleep deprived mum, but I'm equally sure you're not a rubbish mum. mixed feeding sounds like lots of work to me, no wonder you can't express and look after ds1 too! if you can keep ds2 latching a few times a day, enough to maintain your existing supply, it does keep your options open for the future, as narmada says

dt2 was better on the ranitidine for a couple of days, but it;s become impossible to get him to take it now and we're back to square one. going to give it a renewed effort next week, and if that doesn't work we're back to the gp. they start solids next weekend, so I'm hoping that may help too.

narmada that sounds really tough. I don't have any useful advice, it sounds like you're the expert here. is he any different if you offer small amounts (flavoured) in a cup rather than bottle? tv for distraction?

You do not have to explain anything! If both your kids are being cared for then you are doing a fabulous job - reflux is an absolute nightmare and something I don't think anyone could understand unless they've been there. Hope whatever you choose works out. Don't fret if BF doesn't work out - there are plenty of babies that do just fine on formula and there are specialist ones on prescription if he doesn't get on eith the regular stuff. Aptamil Pepti is the most 'normal' tasting in my experience.

Mama fingers crossed for you solids will make a big difference.

Narmada I know where to go to if I need to ask more about different formula. Think I'm going to try comfort milk first. It does sound tempting getting formula on prescription :) but will try him on off the shelf formula first. How's your DS doing?

Another tough night and morning. It was DH's turn to deal with DS2 last night and forgot my instructions about using cartons. Grrr...! He woke up 3 times in the night. He's also been crying all morning and been sicking up bits of milk every hour, yet he wants more milk. Off to shops to get comfort formula.