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Infant feeding

Get advice and support with infant feeding from other users here.

Original poster

dt2, 5mo, fighting at the breast, really struggling

27 replies

MamaChocoholic · 20/03/2011 20:18

dt2 has always been a bit high needs, bit colicky in the first months, still at 5mo given to daily bouts of inconsolable crying.

at bedtime and sometimes during the day, he fights instead of feeds. he kind of crunches up with his stomach muscles then kicks his legs out and jerks his head back (while clamped on nipple), all while pinching and pulling my breast/neck with his hands. I hate it.

some feeds are fine, and there's little pattern except the middle of the night ones tend to be ok, the bedtime ones not ok, daytimes unpredictable. today I tried skipping the feed when he was like this, in case he does it because he's not hungry, but his nappies ended up much lighter than usual (and lighter than dt1's), so I don't think that's right. have tried winding, no success. I usually offer every hour or two (before and after naps) as big feeds tend to lead to more vomit. he is sick after about half the feeds in the day (not immediately though), but only occasionally overnight.

any suggestions what this could be/what I could do? I can't imagine not bf my babies, but I'm worried his my feelings about these horrible feeds are contaminating my feelings about him, which is awful.

OP posts:
YesPleaseDrChristian · 20/03/2011 20:36

Could it be reflux?

Original poster
MamaChocoholic · 20/03/2011 20:40

I asked the gp that when he was little, but he was rarely sick then and he said no. does sickiness get worse as they get older with reflux or better? dt2's definitely got more sicky with time.

OP posts:
anonMum2 · 20/03/2011 20:40

Watching with interest as have similar problem - DS2 5 weeks old and I'm stopping BF soon, mainly on FFs now. Problem is I'm unable to gradually stop BF as he has been screaming, jerking his head and body back, and refusing most feeds the last few days(yet perfectly happy on some feeds and does a good feed). Initially I blamed low supply but it happens randomly each day, not coinciding with supply, which I think is lowest in the evenings. Sometimes he would feed happily for 10 minutes, suddenly opens his eyes and starts screaming, then does not even attempt to latch on after that, or if he does, he clamps on my nipples in a funny way, lets go and screams again. BF counsellor been around but could not work out why this is happening.

YesPleaseDrChristian · 20/03/2011 20:44

I'd ask the GP again.

It might be worth trying Infant Gaviscon for a week or two to see if there is any improvement. In the meantime can you try a different feeding position to keep the baby more upright.

narmada · 20/03/2011 20:49

It sounds like reflux to me. IME it is at its absolute worst around 4-5 months because a) if it's been going on unchecked for quite a while there may be some acid damage to the oesophagus and b)the volume of milk needed at this age is high, so lots of potential for 'backwash'.

Both mine have been silent refluxers for the first 3 months, and then got very very unsilent around the 4 month mark -e.g., lots of spitting up, random times. The thing you describe about him alternately crunching into a ball and stretching out sounds exactly like my DS.

It is very common for refluxy babies to feed better during the night, and poorly during the day. Some only ever feed at night/ in their sleep.

Original poster
MamaChocoholic · 20/03/2011 20:54

ok, will go back to gp and suggest infant gaviscon.

they think I'm a hypochondriac (by proxy) anyway. I've been there about 3 times saying "dt2 just cries/screams all the time" but they act like I'm a mad woman who doesn't know that babies cry. will also try more upright positions - the bedtime feed is always lying down, and this tends to be the worst, so that does correlate.

anonMum2, I was following your thread. does he do this on ffs or only bfs?

OP posts:
Original poster
MamaChocoholic · 20/03/2011 20:58

narmada thanks. didn't know reflux could go from silent to unsilent. I feel awful now not pushing it more with gp earlier, but will go back tomorrow and insist. I suffered with bad reflux in pregnancy (gaviscon was never much help though), if that's how he's been feeling no wonder he has screaming bouts. :(

OP posts:
Original poster
MamaChocoholic · 20/03/2011 20:59

ps did gavison help your dcs or should I be asking for anything else?

OP posts:
narmada · 20/03/2011 21:06

Gaviscon may or may not work - it did nothing at all for either of mine but then DS has chucked up all solids so far tried too, so it's not surprising it was ineffective in his case as thicker liquids are not enough for him. He is on Lansoprazole (a fairly heavy hitting drug, knocks out acid production pretty much). I can't say he is totally transformed but there is less crying and he is just about managing to follow his centile line although feeding is a bit of an effort (he is FF).

If it does turn out to be reflux - please don't feel guilty. Not your fault if doctors are a bit ignorant about it. Really, they should listen to mums a little bit more. If you've only been 3 times to the GP, then really, that's nothing! Honestly, it's not. You should see our appointment history....

narmada · 20/03/2011 21:07

Ranitidine is sometimes the first-line treatment, but is about half as effective as PPI drugs like omeprazole/ lansoprazole. It's enough for many, though.

YesPleaseDrChristian · 20/03/2011 21:16

Gavison gave us about a 70% improvement, coupled with different strategies like bumbo seat, walker with wheels removed and bed tipped at an angle we struggled through. DD2 was upright for the whole time except for nap and sleep times.

IME nothing really works 100% with reflux and often you keep trying different things and over the months it will be begin to improve anyway. You'll find the things that work for you better than others.

Turning point was about nine months and steadily better from then. Prior to nine months I had very few smiley photos of DD2 Sad

Even with the spitting up BF is still the best things for refluxy babies.

Original poster
MamaChocoholic · 20/03/2011 21:28

thanks narmada, I will go back and be assertive Grin

can infant gaviscon be used with bf YPDC? I read up a bit and it seems it's a powder to be dissolved in milk? I can't express for toffee. ranitidine looks more simple to administer.

dt2 is definitely better upright. he had to be held upright nearly the whole time from about 4 weeks to 3 months and even then would cry himself to sleep. I can lie him down once asleep though, so sounds not as bad as both of your dcs, poor things.

OP posts:
narmada · 20/03/2011 21:33

You can give gaviscon prior to a BF, as a paste on a spoon or in a syringe, mixed with boiled cooled water if you can't be faffed to express. Definitely second the BF being best thing for reflux - generally smaller, more regular feed volumes and BF helps regulate digestive transit in a way that bottlefeeding does not. DD was BF, DS bottle, and he is far worse.

Original poster
MamaChocoholic · 21/03/2011 11:36

back from docs. she says it could still be colic, but said the only way to tell if it was reflux was to treat it, and see if he gets better/happier. so we have ranitidine (gaviscon after each feed sounds like hard work). thanks for the help. I feel both guilty and hopeful that this will work, and have managed to be more patient with dt2 during two bad feeds so far today.

OP posts:
narmada · 21/03/2011 12:28

I really hope it does some good for you - and glad it's ranitidine rather than gaviscon. What's the dosage? Is it 3x day?

Colic my arse. Diagnosis of last resort for babies who cry a lot! How old's your LO by the way?

anonMum2 · 21/03/2011 13:42

MamaChocoholic DS2 started fussing on bottles yesterday too, although he is held upright whilst having his FF so it's perhaps not as obvious. With BF he's mostly lying down. He's happiest when we hold him upright over our shoulder. He feeds pretty well in the middle of the night and fusses the most between 8am-9pm. I just thought it was my milk supply decrease due to my BF struggles, and he has stopped feeding off me the last few days. :(

Reading these posts have reminded me that DS2 always chucks up a some milk after every feed, despite only taking a small-ish feed(3-4 oz). Few days ago he threw up what seemed like his whole feed. Booking a GP appt now but suspect the reaction will be the same as what you got and they will either say its colic or blame my milk supply for his screaming and kicking.

Please do let me know if the ranitidine makes a difference. :)

Original poster
MamaChocoholic · 21/03/2011 20:25

he's 5mo. gp suggested gaviscon, explained it would be needed in a bottle after each feed, and I said I didn't think he'd take a bottle and that I didn't have time to faff with sterilising etc. she said we could try ranatidine "but it's a drug ". I know it's a drug! he's been crying for hours every day for months! I'm prepared to risk a drug if it will help him! reading about the effects of extended crying on a newborn brain has not been helpful. (sorry for rant)

anyway, she's said to give 2x/day, as that is the dose from 6mo and will be easier than 3x. gave it lunchtime, he hasn't been sick since! naps all wrong though, so still grumpy (not screamy) and everyone too tired at bedtime, so will try again in the morning. fingers crossed :)

anon, stick to your guns with gp. if he fusses at the bottle, then it's not your supply. do you still bf in the night?

OP posts:
Sistermoondance · 21/03/2011 20:38

Watching with interest too- I just posted about my bf suddenly going wrong at 4 months with her pulling off and wriggling about. She does kind of arch her back a lot. And has has always been 'high needs' cries a lot at the drop of a hat for no apparent reason. Can be inconsolable for hours which is just miserable for both if us.

Must admit that I have never considered that it could be reflux as some days she barely spits up and even on her worst days it is still pretty average....

Please keep us posted and good luck

narmada · 22/03/2011 12:37

ranitidine is weight sensitive, mama. Did your GP work out the dose based on his weight, not just his age?

anonMum2 · 22/03/2011 13:33

MamaChocoholic glad he isn't sick anymore and hopefully better sleep and less crying soon!

I feed do the night feeds because that's the best feed. 10pm and mornings are hit and miss. I don't even attempt during the day now as we both end up in tears, and if we're out it's just utterly embarassing and stressful.

Off to GP now.

anonMum2 · 22/03/2011 13:37

Ps. DS2 fussed non-stop on the bottle at 10am after screaming at my breast as usual, but was very hungry so eventually finished 4oz after an hour, followed by projectile vomitting after a few very strange sounding coughs. I remember my DS1 used to down 8oz in 10 minutes when he was 6 weeks old and was never sick.

HooverTheHamaBeads · 22/03/2011 17:45

The 'cough' is a classic reflux symptom

Original poster
MamaChocoholic · 22/03/2011 22:09

how did it go at GP anon?

didn't know that about the cough Hoover, dt2 has had a barking cough practically since birth. have commented about it to doctors, bf counsellor, hv has heard it. no one suggested reflux.

but, dt2 has not been sick since this morning! hooray! he hasn't had any really upset times either, but will see how things progress over the next few days, not counting any chickens. narmada he is having a dose calculated by weight for an under 6mo, but spread over 2 doses/day instead of 3. good job too, as he really hates it. this morning he swallowed most of it when I tipped his head up, but tonight he refused to open his mouth, and when I got the medicine in he dribbled it out, even as I tried to hold his mouth closed. how do you persuade a baby to take medicine he doesn't like?

OP posts:
anonMum2 · 23/03/2011 20:42

Yay! That sounds promising.

DS2 has had the cough since birth as well. We thought he just had cough/cold.

GP prescribed infant gaviscon and told me to speak to HV. I wish his BF strike would end because I am so engorged and in pain despite feeding him 4 times a day (used to be 8-10 times). He just won't feed off me during the day no matter what positions I try.

anonMum2 · 23/03/2011 20:49

MamaChocoholic have you been using a syringe to give the medication? We always used to give calpol/ibuprofen/antibiotics on a syringe when DS1 was 3-4 months, but he choked, hated them and spat them out. We realised really quickly that he loved taking them off a spoon instead. Not sure if that would work for you or if DS1 was just a strange baby! :)

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