Please help - problems BF from a new mum

[BeanInMyBelly]

Hi all - i have a beautiful 4 day old little girl, born 6 pounds 9 1/2 oz, one week early with ventouse delivery (sp?).
She has been declared fit and well, but I am really struggling with bf, which is really getting me down as its all i've wanted to do since finding out i was pregnant. My milk 'came in' last night and got really uncomfortable and heavy. She hasn't really gotten the hang of proper bf yet, so far shes had about 3 good feeds, and even then it didn't seem like she'd had enough (although i know they don't need much at first). Since last night though, she really seems to have struggled to sick properly. The mw etc have all told me that the latch on is perfect, and that when she is sucking she is doing it right, but she loses interest very quickly and especially the last 36 hours hasn't fed well at all. She started getting really narky when i took her away from my breasts this morning, even though she'd been sat there for ages - she puts her mouth around the nipple and once shes finished she just sits there and falls asleep, but wakes up and crys if you take her waway. All day today she has been really 'screaming' crying - and we have tried everything - swaddling, feeding, changing nappy, comforting, leaving alone, etc, but nothing works apart from letting her sit on my breast, where she feeds for about 30 seconds then gives up and goes to sleep with her mouth wrapped round. I've given in this afternoon and bought a pump, which just now i have used. I let her do what she normally does on one breast until she'd given up (about 5 mins) then pumped the rest out (got nearly 20ml) and give her that with a bottle which she gobbled down. Then she carried on crying so i put her on the other breast and she 'fed' for again about 5 mins, then i did the same, and bottle fed another 20ml. Now she has finally seemed to settle down and gone to sleep.

Can anyone give me any suggestions on either getting her to improve her feeding (as i would rather exclusively bf) or any advice on if i was to carry on expressing?
Would it be ok to let her feed as much as she can, then express the rest? Will there be a large risk of her not bf'ing if i bottle fed after each feed? Any help would really really be appreciated!

It sounds like you need help in RL. Can you get a midwife to come out to you? Tomorrow will be ok if it's too late now.

Has she been checked for tongue tie? Latching properly and then breaking it off after a short time is a classic sign.

It's best (to keep your supply up) if you can feed her directly, but please don't panic about the bottles. Try not to use them if at all possible, but if you do - don't worry, as a temporary measure it's probably not going to harm too much. You could try cup feeding too which will help avoid any potential nipple confusion. Do get some RL help ASAP though. Also you are going to need to keep expressing often if you are giving bottles, to keep your supply up.

Biological nurturing is one thing you could try tonight. This site has some info, watch the video. www.biologicalnurturing.com/ Basically it's lying back in a reclined position and encouraging her to latch by herself. It should ensure a better and more relaxed latch which might encourage her to feed for longer.

You sound like you're doing great :) hang in there.

Someone with more experience will be along shortly i'm sure, but i would err away from bottle feeding at this early stage as it may make her refuse the breast more as it is easier from a bottle. I would encourage you to keep her close to you and let her feed when she wants and sleep when she wants. If you get uncomfortably full, by all means express. You can freeze expressed milk for a while, which you could bottle feed her when she is a little older, of you can pump and dump. She will feed from you when she is hungry. She is still really tiny and they often are sleepy to begin with! I wouldn't worry too much, she'll soon let you know if she's hungry. Congratulations by the way. I too have a DD and its wonderful being a mummy! x

Can you just keep her at the breast, feeding or not if thats where she is happy? It can be easier than fighting to change what she wants. She needs to be close, and will probably feed little and often at this age, this is all normal (provided the mw are happy with her weight gain, wet nappies etc etc). Try cosleeping if you can't EVER put her down. Try a sling. This won't last, honestly. She's building your supply to meet her needs at the moment.

She's 4 days old - of course she just wants to be on the breast at the moment. If she's happy at the breast then just let her stay there.

Feed-sleep-feed-sleep-feed-sleep is totally normal behaviour in a newborn.

Are your nipples ok? If your nipples aren't painful and the latch looks fine then everything sounds good to me.

If she's happy at the breast, keep her there. Get a sling, stay on the sofa all day with tea / cakes / TV and make sure someone is running round after you. Get a MW in tomorrow or go to a BF cafe / ring a helpline to make sure your latch is OK if that is what you are worried about.

It sounds exactly like my DS who was also a ventouse delivery. Don't be scared but he cluster fed constantly as a newborn. Once I realised this is what he wanted, it was easier to organise my life around him.

Congratulations on your lovely DD - you sound like you are doing brilliantly and these days will pass.

Get IRL help would be my advice too.

But it is normal for a newborn to want to stay on the breast. DOn't fight this. Learn to feed lying down so she can have lots of short feeds while you doze - if you're not happy co-sleeping then get someone to watch over you while you doze. And get lots of help so you can just sit on the sofa for hours - plus set up bfing "stations" with a big bottle of something to drink and lots of snacks. Slings are also amazing with clingy (normal) newborns.

Undressing them a bit can help wake them up. Also, try swapping boobs when she stops feeding.

FWIW, if she's flutter sucking (aka comfort feeding) this can still help build up your supply.

It's the fact she only seems to be feeding for 30 seconds at a time which is making me say you need real life help. 5 minutes is short, but not worryingly so if she is feeding often. 30 seconds is more concerning. It's normal for a newborn to want to stay with mum even when not feeding - it's not normal to feed for such a short time and consistently fall asleep. Please don't worry though OP. It's something to look at but your baby is receiving some milk - she is not going to starve overnight. You could try switching to the other side whenever she begins to lose interest as another thing to try.

I hope you are OK :) I forgot to say as well, if she is sleeping longer than 3 hours at a time it might be best to wake her after 3 hours and offer the breast again.

If you need advice urgently remember you can call the ward at any time and speak to a midwife. La Leche League's helpline is 24 hours as well, though a midwife is more likely to be able to come out to you.

Good luck!

If your boobs hurt or you're worried about your LO not producing enough wet and pooey nappies, get someone professional (not just a HV/Midwife, they don't always know what's going on) to help you. We got a lactation consultant who saved our bacon - wonderful woman - so for the reassurance if nothing else, if you're worried about your baby, get someone to help you.

If you're just worried it can't POSSIBLY be normal for your baby to want to be constantly on your breast - aaah, I remember those topless days! and nights! And days!
Basically for the first month or so, your baby wants to be on the boob. Not only is it sorting out your supply (which is good!) but it's the closest feeling to you that she has, and after all, she's used to being even closer to you, she's used to being inside you! Mine used to want to be smooshed up against the boob even when not properly sucking - it just felt good to him, so I got a big comfy pillow and some dvd boxed sets, and put my feet up. Tell all and sundry that it's VERY important baby time, and get them to make you a cuppa and do your chores :)

I second what Bertie says, and the other thing is DON'T PANIC - four days is very, very early in and loads of people have a few difficulties at the start that can be sorted by a different position, etc. I remember worrying so much with DS1 that we would never get it right and I felt so much pressure because like you, I really wanted to BF. Get some RL help - or it may only be reassurance - and keep feeding her as much as you can in the meantime. Congratulations

this could have been me writing your post.. I am now here with a 2 week old typing with one hand whilst she is happily feeding!!! it took us a while to get the hang of sucking.. i have been pumping loads and we cup fed for about 3-4 days before expressing into a bottle. it saved us imo!! just keep trying the breast first every time and they WILL learn.. i know it doesn't feel like it now.. also get your local mwife to support and show you diff latch positions.. the rugby ball one works well for us.

good luck! xx

How are things today, Bean?

Bean, some good posts already.

Hope today is better.

Your baby is 4 days old - early, early days :)

It's not clear what's been happening, but it sounds very like there's been a lot of interference and handling, whereas the simplest and most effective way of getting bf going is to just let your baby stay on or near your breast, sleeping there, and feeding as and when she wants.

The pumping and bottle feeding can be a whole layer of complication which you really don't want - if your baby is well, and showing all the signs of starting to get her bf act together, with no l....o....n....g hours asleep, if she is producing soft yellow poo 2-3 or more times today, and weeing, then you can relax and just let things happen :)

Hey all, thank you for the advice and support. I rang La Leche and she said the same as a lot of posters - that its completley normal to want to stay near the breast 'comfort sucking'. What was starting to bother me was that she keeps shaking her head around right next to the nipple after letting go, and started crying after latching on for 5 -10 seconds at a time, so in the end even sat with her on my breast wasn't comforting her! Last night was difficult again, in the end I expressed fully one breast and we gave her about 7ml through a bottle, then she went to sleep for a few hours, woke up and had another go on the breast (no luck) so another 2ml through syringe, slept till 6am then when i latched her on to my other breast she fed continuously for about 10 mins, fell asleep and 'de-latched' then slept through til 10am. Tried bf'ing again at 10.30am, no luck again, crying through even though latching on and sucking for 10 seconds, so again i expressed (both breasts as I've put one breastful into a bottle for emergency use tonight!) and fed her about 9ml, shes slept for about 45 mins and is just starting to stir again. I have a mw coming out at about 2pm to try and help.
I wouldn't mind her sitting on my breast all day if she was content/sucking periodically etc, but in my mind if she is crying while on the breast shes not happy, and surely it wont be building up my supply? If we can get her settled on them, then I am happy to express loads and feed her this way. She does seem more content after the bottle rather than the syringe.
Can anyone offer advice on the possibilty of exclusively expressing? I was thinking if i really can't get her to suck properly after a week or so, then i could let her have a bit of time on each breast at each feed, then give her expressed and express each breast, if that makes sense?
Thanks again all - i am determined that even if i have to bottle feed it will be breastmilk at least!!!

Aw, Bean, I hope the midwife helps. She can also check your baby's mouth for any oral oddities.

It strikes me that everything is becoming hugely complicated and intense. The fussing and head shaking on the breast is likely to die down - it may be she just wants a cuddle and a slight change of position sometimes.

If you can, just stay with her close to you, respond to every little feeding cue, but don't worry if this does not lead to a feed...just hang in there and soothe her and don't feel 'OMG, I must express or there will be no milk made!'....building up a milk supply is not as 'knife edge' as that.

It's far, far too soon to even think about expressing and feeding in a bottle as the main way to feed. Though of course this is sometimes an option when nothing else seems to work.

Just thought i'd update whats happened over the past few days.
Made the decision on the afternoon of the 10th to express and bottle feed after she spent most of the afternoon screaming again. Ate lots over the course of the night.
Was weighed at the midwife center on friday morning, severley underweight and had to be referred to hospital. Thank goodness she was ok generally, just hadn't been eating hardly anything, hence the screaming. Neo natal unit said that bf obviously wasn't working for her, checked my technique and said we are both doing everything right, but she is obviously just not getting enough out of it. My milk supply is great as well so not sure what the problem was but am so glad i trusted my instincts - i knew she wasn't getting enough.
Weighed again this morning and has put on 100grams in 2 days, so we are hoping to increase this even further in the next few days.
I am very cross that the midwifes do no monitor things like this a bit more closely - i was made to feel that i was a bit silly and to just persevere, which could have made my beautiful girl even worse. Now baby, mum and dad are all happy and content, and most importantly being fed enough. I think less emphasis should be placed on what and how babies eat, and more placed on making sure they are getting what they need. Thanks again to all.

Good to hear from you, Bean.

I guess your baby was aged 6 days when she was weighed and was found to be severely underweight and in need of hospital treatment? Good job this prob was spotted before your dd became unwell...but you were still massively let down. You were under maternity unit and midwife care all that time, and the lack of effective feeding was not spotted. You are right to be cross about this - you were observed feeding and everyone said all was well. But it clearly was not.

Babies feed ineffectively for a number of reasons, but it can almost always be fixed before the baby has lost a lot of weight.

Instead, by the time you posted here on day 4, you had been told many times that things were just fine. People here told you (correctly) that frequent feeding is normal in the early days and that some fussing and unsettledness is also normal - given that you had been told there was nothing wrong with the actual feeding.

I think it's a real shame you have had to undergo all this :( Is breastfeeding direct still an option for you? There's nothing you have said here would rule it out, but it would depend on careful observation by someone who knew what to look for.