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Infant feeding

Get advice and support with infant feeding from other users here.

Thinking about giving up...

23 replies

MsScarlett · 05/03/2011 15:27

DD, 8 weeks, has been incredibly unsettled since birth. She has been prescribed gaviscon for reflux and whilst this improved things a bit, she was still very collicky at times. HV recommended giving colief a go, which worked wonders instantly. The HV also spotted a tongue tie which we also recently had corrected, but tbh doesn't seem to have made that much difference, her lacth is definitly better but her symptoms haven't really improved. Though with the gaviscon and colief alone she has some nights been sleeping from 10 pm til 5 am, which for her was miraculous!

Thing is GP refuses to prescribe colief. It costs £10.99 a bottle. Apparently it can only be prescribed for babies with lactose intolerance which she won't have as she is gaining weight. However, I have read in journals on pubmed that lactase enzyme (colief) is an effective treatment for colic caused by transient lactase deficiency/lactose overload, i.e. baby produces too little lactase to cope with volume of lactose in my milk, which is clearly what dd has.

Last saturday night we ran out and I attempted to feed her without it, she was so distressed and clealry in agony, I had to drive to boots midnight pharmacy. Last night the same thing happened. So, definitely not an option to drop it, and a bottle lasts less than a week. I have tried block feeding but this seemed to reduce my supply and led to her being unsettled for that reason. She feeds little and often because of the reflux so I think she rarely drains the full breast. I can only give gaviscon 6 times a day, and she feeds more than this, so the feeds where she can't have the gaviscon she is refluxy and distressed. I am also constantly watching the clock and trying to work out how many doses she has had etc. I tried sticking to 6 set times for feeds and "stretch her out" in between but this led to the most unsettled night ever as she clearly hadn't had enough in the day. Using the colief is a faff. You have to use in before every feed and first you must hand express some milk (has to be warm so can't use previously expressed milk), mix it in and feed it to her in a syringe. The gaviscon is given after the feed and must be mixed with cooled boiled water in a pot and also syringed. So if she falls asleep at the breast I have to wake her and give it to her and she hates it and screams - it tastes horrible and she spits most of it out so we go through bibs/clothes like nobody's business. If I don't give it though, it is only a matter of time before she wakes in pain from reflux. And my nights are spent washing and sterilising pots and syringes and traipsing up and down the stairs to get colief which has to be kept in the fridge btw.

I am just completely sick to death with bfing tbh. I can't get any real practcial advice from anyone, neither gp or hv seems to be able to advise on feeding routines/block feeding etc. I am thinking of switching to lactose free formula as it will be cheaper than using the colief. All the pros of breastfeeding don't apply to me. It is not convenient or cheap. And it feels like I am doing it all wrong anyway, as it doesn't seem to be doing her much good or making her very happy. And I'd like a break and god forbid, even get pissed! Wine

Sorry to moan on. I feel so selfish as I know there are people with far worse problems. Just really fed up tbh. Sad

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IMissSleep · 05/03/2011 15:38

You're doing your best and breastfeeding isn't for everyone! Don't beat yourself up about it.

I would try the formula. I breast fed for 5 months, DS is 6 months now and remember sitting in bed in tears with the pain at about 2 months. It tough. Bloody tough.

She needs you to be stress free and breastfeeding isn't the be all of being a good parent!

And it sounds like you need a good drink Wink Wine

MsScarlett · 05/03/2011 15:40

Thanks. I just feel so sad - I was determined to breast feed, but now I can see why people ditch it...

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tiktok · 05/03/2011 15:41

:( :(

Can totally understand the pissed-offness.

If you switch to lactose-free formula you will prob spend more money on it than the coleif - you can get this formula prescribed but not if your GP does not feel your baby is lactose-intolerant.

So is it the whole messiness of having to 'treat' your baby before feeding that is the worst aspect of all this?

Who have you seen to really talk this through, have a feed observed, plus the aftermath?

It's hard to say what might be going on - just that if it is over supply block feeding may need a few days to really make a difference.

IMissSleep · 05/03/2011 15:44

Don't be sad. You've done 8 weeks! That's fantastic! Lots of people don't bother.

You need to do whats right for you and your DD. Being sad and stressed will not help either of you.
And she's poorly, you just want her to be better. You're doing great!

Hermya321 · 05/03/2011 17:12

Instead of going to your Doctors, have you tried talking to your Health visitor about prescribing colief or going to the baby clinic and kicking up a stink?

TittyBojangles · 05/03/2011 17:38

Or try a different gp?

MsScarlett · 05/03/2011 17:46

tiktok I looked it up and a 430g can of lf formula is just over a fiver, I've know idea how long it lasts but I'm guessing it will last 5-6 days? Therefore by my reckoning paying for formula is cheaper than paying for the colief. And it has all the "benefits" of ff. Yes, I know breast is best but it doesn't seem to be doing me or my lo much good in the short term! The HV came round just at the end of a feed. By this time she was already on the colief as she recommended it on the phone. She witnessed the fussiness and the screaming and gagging/choking when she was laid down to be weighed. She therefore confirmed the reflux and also referred me to the bf mw to get the tongue tie done.

At the hosp, the bf mw saw that she had a shallow latch before the tongue tie was fixed, then helped me with positioning and to get a better latch after. It has improved dd's latch to some extent, but old habits die hard and as the tongue was done quite late she still tends to stay on the end of them quite a lot. And I just don't know sometimes whether it's right or not and whether to take her off, as she invariably gets upset. I'm just so unsure of myself all the time these days. Plus my nipples have got MORE sore since she had it done - I think they got used to the albeit rubbish way she was latching on before. Plus, I think her reflux has got worse since, I suppose because she was used to sucking really hard and now she takes too much to fast... Sad.

And yes, I guess the whole messiness/faff of feeding her is making me really fed up with bfing.(It makes me really feel for people who have really sick lo's who are on loads of meds, and it bit guilty for moaning) Both colief and gaviscon can be added to the formula so it would be so much easier.

But that's the extent of it. Anyone I talk to seems to dismiss hind milk/fore milk imbalance and knows very little about block feeding. Everyone's kind of "discharged" me now as I think they've done all they can.

Hermya321 HV recommended the colief but ultimately the GP needs to prescribe it. She siad she was going to call my GP before I went but I don't think she did as he knew nothing about it.

She screamed all night last night as I had no colief for her evening feed and all though I then went and got some, she remained unsettled all night. She has cried all day today as well, I guess because she's tired. I am fed up. Sorry again for the MASSIVE rant.

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MsScarlett · 05/03/2011 17:55

titty yes I thought about that. I have my postnatal apt on Monday, but alas it is with the same GP. I am thinking about printing off some of the papers I have read and taking them in for him, but don't expect this will go down that well! He is actually a nice bloke so I feel a bit bad contradicting him, but quite frankly I don't care anymore! I worked out that I have bought 3 bottle of colief in 2 weeks. That's £60 a month and I just can't afford it. And she can't do without it. Yes I know she is gaining weight and is not dying, but she is clearly in pain and if I had to put up with her screams if she didn't have it, I think I would end up jumping off the nearest tall building...

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TittyBojangles · 05/03/2011 18:12

Tell the gp that that is the choice you are left with... colief and bf or formula and you are sure the gp would want to do everything they possibly could to support your continuing to bf. Try speaking to the hv before the appt and explain the prob to her to see if she can help by speaking to the gp?

MsScarlett · 05/03/2011 18:16

Yes titty, think I will. Thing is I don't think I will get the chance to speak to hv before monday... I think deep down i don't want to give up bfing, but sometimes I do wonder why I bother as it all just seems so hard soemtimes!

Ta all, just had to have a moan Smile!

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Hermya321 · 05/03/2011 18:29

MsScarlett I would agree with Titty and maybe give it one last ditch attempt to get the colief prescribed, it's worth a bash at the very least (maybe cry as well).

I had a friend whose LO was the same as yours and in the end she got so desperate she rang the out of hours doctors and got sorted that way.

Apart from that all I have is Wine.

MsScarlett · 05/03/2011 19:04

Thank you! I don't care what anyone says, I'm having a glass of sauv blanc tonight! (just a small one mind) Wine

Mum and Dad are having her for the night soon so me and dp and some pals can go out for my birthday. Ma and Pa won't know what's hit them with my dd, but can't wait to sink a few glasses! Filling the freezer with ebm in anticipation, and making sure I allow for the hangover too! Grin

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TruthSweet · 05/03/2011 20:10

MsScarlett - So sorry you (and baby) are having such a rough time of it.

I used Infant Gaviscon for DD1 and we used to boil the kettle, allow to cool slightly then fill a thermos with the hot water. We then used to mix the 5mls of hot water and the gaviscon in a EBM container then add 10 mls of cold water, screw a standard neck bottle teat on and feed it to DD1. Initially the Dr who prescribed it said I had to express to mix it up but when I checked with the pharmacist they were baffled by the Dr's instructions and said it had to be made up with hot water to dissolve properly. Unfortunately it didn't do anything for her reflux (except cause constipation) and we got domperidone which actually made her gain weight!

Making up instructions

I have found Colief for sale for £8.96 a 7ml bottle here and you can get 3 bottles for £23 on ebay here. Perhaps that would help things out a bit?

japhrimel · 06/03/2011 08:26

From what I've read, lactase-deficiency in babies is usually a temporary thing that goes as their digestive system matures. You may only have a month or two of this left, so it's probably worth keeping that in mind as if you switch to formula, you're pretty much stuck with it.

Please get more irl help. IME positioning and latch make a huge difference to how much fattier milk your LO gets - they need a deep latch with chin tucked well in or they get less fatty milk.

TallulahDoesTheHula · 06/03/2011 09:29

Ds2 was ff and still had colic. It cost me about £8 a week in formula plus the colief. Most babies stop needing the colief at about 3 months though. Ds stopped needing it at almost 4 months old.
If it's purely down to cost then long term it would be much cheaper to pay for the colief only now and then when she stops needing it you'll have £0 costs!

MsScarlett · 06/03/2011 12:02

Thanks everyone! Truth, thanks for the links, really helpful!

Had a really rough night last night, dd woke at 3am and wouldn't go back to sleep, apart from face down on my chest after feeding - another classic reflux thing apparently, though I thought we were over that as she hasn't done that for a while. She's only sleeping in her bouncy chair now that I've given up any hope of sleep myself and got out of bed! Little madam! Oh well at least she might actually let me have a shower! Then I'm going to my mum's so she can amuse her for a while. DP has had to work this Sunday Angry.

Think I will speak to both GP and HV and threaten to give up bf unless this is sorted. It seems that all HCPs are obliged to push bfing at all costs, so this may do the trick. Though in hindsight if I'd have known it was going to still be this hard now I probably wouldn't have bothered putting myself through all this and i sometimes wonder why i keep doing it to myslef. It's only now I've come this far and been through it all that it feels like a shame to give up now. I do sometimes wonder if I will breastfeed if I have another dc. Every ff baby I have ever met is smiley, content, sleeps right through and generally angelic. Mine is screaming, miserable and tired most of the time - as are we! Even the HV conceded that it is nigh on impossible to establish any kind of routine with a bf baby.

Anyway sorry about the anti bf rant. As I said I was always very much for it, but experience is making me wonder...

Anyway thank you all again. Smile

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MsScarlett · 06/03/2011 12:15

P.S. TruthSweet, how did you go about convincing your GP to try something else for reflux? I'm not convinced Gaviscon is all that effective for my DD either. Admittedly she is better on it than off it IYSWIM, but I still feel there is definitley room for improvement with the reflux symptoms and dd is also straining to go a lot - plus I worry about all that sodium and it is also a pain in the arse...

I know when I had reflux in pg, adult gaviscon never touched it and only thing that worked for me was ranitidine.

How bad was your dd's reflux? What kind of symptoms did she have? Sorry you went through it all too Sad

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MamaChris · 06/03/2011 14:08

I have a screamy baby too. He has got better with time as he's got bigger, and it's only now I'm starting to click it might be/have been silent reflux. He didn't sleep without being held for weeks, but from 2-3 months started sleeping in a buggy.

fwiw, my friend had a screamy refluxy little girl when I had ds1. she switched to formula, and her baby just got worse, so it's not necessarily a magic cure. I think you meet less screamy babies simply because it's hard to get out with them, which doesn't help when you're alone in the night imagining that yours is the only baby who does this.

good luck with the gp Monday.

TruthSweet · 06/03/2011 19:31

MsScarlett - Gaviscon made her poo marbles (literally as they were so hard and round) and her bum would tear. She also didn't gain weight properly on it as she was still being sick all the time it was just thick sick (except in front of Drs of course Hmm).

Domperidone works by speeding up the transit of milk through the gut so it's great for bfing babies as you just need to syringe the required amount of drug into them X times a day rather than p-ing about with tiny bottles of gaviscon. I found it much easier to stick some sterile syringes and the domperidone in the change bag than a thermos, gaviscon powder, cold water and bottle so we got out more too.

I did have to go in and ask for it (or rather push for it) but when DD1 was on it she was completely different - gained weight, vomiting lessened, screaming fits nearly stopped - it was fantastic. Eventually we just let her grow out of the last dose (as it's based on weight) rather than cutting down or stopping suddenly but by then she was about 15m and seemed to grow out of the reflux naturally.

DD1s reflux was quite bad when unmedicated, she could feed for 1hr 45 mins at a time (with vomiting in between sides) and fed at least every 2 hours so I would get a few mins off between feeds some days. Some days she spent all the time vomiting and feeding with some time off to 'dolphin' (Sandiford's) and to scream. Our sofa looked like it had been on Nelson's Column it was so streaked with vomit Grin

She was born on 50th%ile but ended up at the 2nd%ile for weight (she was tall too 91st%ile) so you could see all her ribs. She could still wear her 0-3m summer clothes when she was about 14m (skirts/tops not dresses!) as she was so skinny but chubbed up at round the time her reflux stopped and she hasnt looked back since. We had her 5th birthday party today and she was one of the tallest (still slim but I think that's a good thing these days!).

I hope you find some medication or something that helps your DD. Rantidine can be prescribed to babies as can omeprazole so might be worth pushing for a paed appointment.

TittyBojangles · 06/03/2011 20:19

My DS has been prescribed ranitidine by our GP (following my ahem.... suggestions). It is working really well for him. He is sick slightly more often than he was on the gaviscon but he doesnt scream with it which is all I'm bothered about. It is a syrup and you give a tiny volume (0.5ml for us) 3 times a day. Worth an ask if they think it is reflux? The GP suggested omeprazole first, but said it could only be prescribed for 2 weeks... that might just be cos he's a gp rather than a paed? I don't know.

narmada · 07/03/2011 13:28

Definitely ask for something else for the reflux. Gaviscon is crap IMHO and it will be so much better for everyone if you can get the reflux sorted out.

I have a FF son with reflux and he is worse on formula because he has to take in a higher volume of milk to meet his nutritional needs and also he has turned out to have suspected cow's milk protein intolerance - which isn't that uncommon. I don't want to put you off FF if that's what you've decided to do but thought I would be honest!

I would definitely second getting some real life help. It could be something that could be fixed relatively easily. A Lactation Consultant would be the best person to see. You may have one working out of your local hospital maternity department or there may be a private one near you.

I have a tin of LF formula bought in desparation last week. The tins are small and I would guess that a typical baby would get through two a week. Just a guess though.

narmada · 07/03/2011 14:08

Oh, and omeprazole can be prescribed for longer than 2 weeks! Some kids (and adults) are on it for years...

MsScarlett · 08/03/2011 08:54

Thanks so much everyone. We had our apt yesterday. DD was angelic and smiley throughout, I've never seen her so settled, I couldn't believe it! She barely even cried when she had her jabs! Needless to say GP still was reluctant to prescribe colief. However after I explained how bad she was over the weekend he is now referring her to get tested for lactose intolerance. He says that there is restrictions on them prescribing it without a diagnosis, which is fair enough I suppose, but I have heard of others getting it so he clearly thinks I am lying/neurotic/suffering from Munchausen's by proxy!

Of course in true form she started screaming as soon as we left the surgery! The pharmacist was taking ages in making up her prescription, I kept having to go and walk around town with her screaming, eventually I just took her screaming into the shop and waited there, that soon hurried them up! After that though she settled down and last night she slept through from 10pm til 6.30 am! I can't actually believe it. Before she was on the various stuff and before we had propped up her moses basket mattress etc, she barely settled for an hour at a time. She did have a bottle of EBM for her last feed last night so I think we'll start doing that. Thing is I woke up this morning absolutely drenched in my own milk!

It is great, and it convinces me even more that it is the lactos ethat is the main problem, as this shows what she SHOULD always be like as long as she stays on the colief. The fact that she was so bad and back to her worst at the weekend when we ran it confirms it for me. Hopefully this referral will get us what we need - probably just in time for her to grow out of it naturally probably!

So ta all. I probably won't give up BFing if she continues like this. I will def stick to the bottle of EBM at night, and may get some LF formula to use at this feed in case I haven't expressed enough.

I may stick with the gaviscon for now. She def has some degree of reflux, as we speak she has gurgly hiccups, she has already projectile chucked all over my nice clean sheets (which are also drenched in my milk - nice!) and when I was changing her she was fine until she started choking on something she spat up. But at least atm she seems to be not too distressed with it (as she was before). And she is no way near as sick as your lo truth, she is gaining weight and otherwise healthy. Just formerly very unhappy!

Thanks all so much.x

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