Update on ds3 - any more advice for me?

[CardyMow]

DS3 is now 5 weeks 5 days. He saw the doctor on 21st Feb about his tongue tie, but his tongue tie is posterior and the doc here can't fix it. Local doc will see DS3 again on 21st March, and if it still needs snipping, the local doc will refer ds3 to the doc at Kings College hospital in London to do.

The issue is that ds3 is still not feeding perfectly, and is getting awful colic. I try to unlatch him and relatch if I can see him sucking in his cheeks or if I hear him 'clicking', but it's doing no good.

The bf counsellor that was at the tongue-tie doc appointment said she would see me once a week at home, she took my phone number but hasn't rung me and I don't have her number. (She was going to see if we could help him feed more efficiently with positioning).

Poor ds3 is screaming in fits and starts from 8pm till 2am every night, both me and DP are sleep deprived, and I still have 3 other dc to look after, and DP still has to go to work. I've tried infacol, which has been no help.

Any advice anyone??

I don't know anything about Tongue tie sorry :( . But the advice we were given with ds was feed with regular breaks for winding. Keep him upright for a good while after a feed and elevate the end of his cot so he is not lying so flat. Not sure if that will have changed as that was a couple of years ago now. The only other thing that I tried after 8 weeks ( i realise yours is younger) is that on days where he was really screaming we gave him calpol which did help a lot. I know a lot of people don't like medicines for young babies but he was in pain and it'd heartbreaking isn't it.

It sounds like you are doing really well with sticking with it. Persevere with getting more advice from a bf councillor. Was she from the nct? If you look on their website you should be able to get a contact number for your local group who will have her number. You may also be able to find out if there are any bf cafe's locally that you can drop in to. I would ring the doctor who saw him and insist the referal is done now, it can always be cancelled if things start working. Its easy for the doctor to ask you to wait another fortnight but he's not up until 2am! I hope you can get some help soon.

Call the hospital to try and chase the BFC or get her number? Maybe try BfN, LLL and/or NCT to see if they can get someone out to see you asap.

Have you tried a sling? Part of DD's colicky-type behaviour earlier on was having had too much and wanting comfort and refusing to be put down. A sling also helps keeps them upright while giving your arms a rest!

Sorry I can't be more help. Have you considered (or do you?) expressing some feeds for now?

I think you need another breastfeeding counsellor. If the issue is latch and positioning it is the kind of thing which is easiest to sort out with someone actually there. Was the counsellor you saw linked to the dr's practice? Can you call them and ask for the number?

If not:
NCT National Breastfeeding Helpline (7 days, 8am-10pm): 0300 330 0771.
La Leche League Telephone Helpline (24 hours): 0845 120 2918
[but during night please only call if it is really urgent as you will be ringing a volunteer who is probably asleep in bed]
The Association of Breastfeeding Mothers Helpline (7 days 9.30am-10.30pm):0844 412 2949
Breastfeeding Network Helpline (7 days, 9.30am-9.30pm):0844 412 4664

Keep calling till you get to speak to someone sensible.

Also 21st March is just not good enough if the tongue tie needs to be addressed. If he is still having issues with latching then it sounds like it might be the problem and the doc should be making the referral asap.

Sorry I realise you probably want advice that will help you get through tonight and tomorrow. Errr feeding in the bath can relax your baby and you. When the nights were really bad at the beginning DH and I decided that we could each get 5hrs sleep between 10 and 8 if we took it in shifts.

But really it is help in real life that will make most difference. I hope you get it soon.

I'm not sure don't think the bf counsellor is NCT/ LLL or BfN, think they are to do with the NHS? Can't raise head of cot - am co-sleeping because he's still feeding between 2am and 7am, so even when I can sleep because he's not screaming, I still have to feed him, and I have to be up at 7am for the other dc.

Can't use a sling, or feed him in the bath, I have epilepsy, it's not safe. DP helped for the last 2 nights, but he has to work tomorrow/ sunday/ mon/ tue/ wed/ thur/ fri, so I have to do the next 7 nights on my own, as much as possible, he needs his sleep for work! ( He can't cope at work on less than 6.5hrs, before baby he needed 10 hrs!)

I'm not getting time to express, tbh. With 3 older dc, I'm always running from one job to another, with no time to sit unless I'm actually feeding ds3, and even then, I'm usually opening packets/ checking homework etc for one of the others.

I go to a bf group (run by the same people) on a Monday, but it's VERY busy (apparently it's the busiest onein my town, in the smallest room) and it's NOT the ady I saw at the hospital, and I went this monday - but didn't even get a word in edgeways chance to speak to the bf counsellor that runs the group. I think some of it is that all the other babies there are the same age (round about 6 months to 1 yr), and she knows all these other ladies much better than me, they are all 1st time mums, it's dc4 for me, and there are NO babies there under 23 weeks except me and ds3.

I will try and ring the hospital on Monday to try to get her phone number, think that's all I can do. I'm so tired though, and last night was seriously considering giving up, just for some sleep that I might get if I FF. whih is daft as I fed DD for 6 months (with colic), ds1 for 4 months. I mixed fed DS2 from 1 month, and FF from 3 months a) due to going onto meds incompatible with bf at 3 months, and b) Due to difficulties caused by (wait for it...) and undiagnosed tongue tie. I don't want to, I want to bf for at least 6 months- 1yr, but christ, I NEED to sleep!

Look pre-baby I was like your DP. I needed 9 hours. I went back to work at 4 months and she fed every 2 hours for months afterwards. Needing sleep for work is a crock of shit. Work is easier than being at home with the baby. I also have to regularly do weekends. He can go to bed at 8/9 help in the night and still get 6 hours.

Please do ring of the helpline given and see a non NHS person as tbh I think for BF the NHS is not the best place to go by far.

not certain, but I think I met someone who self referred to Kings. can you phone them and ask? both dt's wind improved greatly after having their posterior tt cut. 21st March is just unacceptable, "if it still needs to be cut" - well it's not going to break on its own by then!

any of the helplines may be able to help you find a good local counsellor who can help with latch.

well done for struggling through this, I hope you can get some rl help soon

I have a lot of sympathy for your DP but you both have full time jobs and you both need your sleep. Especially if you have epilepsy too.

If he absolutely has to get 6.5hrs sleep then he needs to be catching some sleep in the evening so he can give you a hand during the night. It is painful but it won't last long.

Your DP might find a sling useful for soothing your baby whilst you get a quick break.

My DD had a tongue tie and suffered with colic. i had it corrected and tbh she still gets it, even though her latch is a lot better now. Colief works amazingly for her, though it is expensive at 10.99 a bottle.

Loudlass - my DS had a posterior tie but luckily didn't get colic. Poor you :(

I'm a bit sceptical of the 'if he still needs it done' - it sounds like he needs the tie cut. Are there any other options apart from waiting for the DR/referral to Kings? DS had his done by a lactation consultant who specialises in tongue tie: www.ann-dobson.co.uk/

The older they are the more they will have to re-learn latch and suck.

Update - DS3 had his tongue tie cut at Kings (nightmare to get to from the other side of Essex by public transport...) on 5th April when he was 10 weeks and a day. It felt different straight away, but I am having trouble teaching him to latch properly now.

The only bf counsellors locally are at bf groups, who have told me to turn up...but that I can't bring my other dc. (boys over the age of 6 aren't welcome?!). And obviously because there's over two weeks holiday, I can't even get the bf counsellor to check his tongue tie has healed well. ( Doctor in London said he'd need checking today). I have no-one to leave d1 & ds2 with as DP is working all through the holidays.

DS3's feeding felt much better for the first 2 days, but now it is seeming more like it was before the TT was snipped, so am worried. London doc didn't seem to understand that bf support isn't as extensive here (no surestart locally as officially an 'affluent' part of my town).

What do I do? Who can I see in person to help with checking his TT is healing OK? Who can I see in person to help me with teaching ds3 to latch and suck properly? Anyone got any advice?

Can you get a HV to come? I know they only seem to see you once these days but if you express concern about his TT and feeding, then I think they would have to come out and see you as he is still so little. Some of the HV's do understand bfing, you need to ask for the right one. Failing that I guess the GP can see if it is healing properly, but not give you bfing advice.

Was there a BF counsellor at the hospital where you gave birth? My hospital had a woman who was there at certain times of the week and they encouraged you to come back if you needed to.

Poor you and DS3, sounds like you are having a nightmare.

I would also ask an HV to come just to check the TT is healing ok.

If you call the NCT/LLL/whoever is running the group and explain that you can't get out to them, maybe someone would be prepared to visit you at home?

My DD's posterior TT was snipped at 12 weeks and no one told me to check for healing. However, the first two days following the snip were great - felt totally different but then she seemed to revert to how she was feeding prior. I was getting so frustrated!! BUT, things got better but slowly. I spent a whole week concentrating on DD getting her latch improved - she has a very shallow latch. Now, 4 weeks on and it's so much better. She has gone from feeding continuously, to hourly straight after the procedure to two hourly and will now sometimes go 3-4 hrly. we've even had a few all nighters (midnight - 6am). It's still not perfect but her weight is improving (wasn't gaining before), my boobs are getting a break now and she seems much happier. I think it was about two weeks post snip that I realised the change.

Sorry i can't advise more but thought you might like to hear a positive story?

oh, forgot to say....... I sort of flatten my boob a bit and 'post' it into DD's mouth. I don't let go straight away as her bottom lip slips and she returns to a shallow latch. This appears to have worked for us. Also, someone told me that it will get easier as their mouth gets bigger? HTH

Hi my DD had her tongue tie cust at 18 weeks and we never had it checked.
I cant believe boys over 6 arent allowed to the BF groups, surely that gives the wrong message ?

Id try the hospital as I know one locally here has a BF cousellor everyday and also try the local Surestart centre.