A bottle of formula here and there...

[Olivetti]

Hello
Sorry to post again about formula, please just ignore if you are bored with me!
My DD is 15 weeks, EBF. I REALLY struggle to express, so much so that it gets me down and makes me doubt my supply, even though she is flourishing and gaining lots of weight. Now that BFing is established, I want to let my husband give her a formula bottle occasionally, e.g. on a Saturday afternoon so I can have a break and go shopping etc. My worries are:

1. Will it effect my supply?
2. Will it hurt her tummy as she is used to EBF?
3. Does it mean I have failed??? I know that sounds awful, but I am beating myself up about it, even though I have no issues whatsoever with others FFing, and would have done so myself if she had struggled to BF. I don't know why I am finding this so difficult. Thanks in advance.

1. It ought not to affect your supply at this stage, although I would keep it to really occasional and not daily.
2. It might give her constipation.
3. That depends on how you categorise 'failure' and what your reasons for BFing were in the first place.

For me, it would have been a failure because I believe in the virgin gut theory and didn't want DS to have any formula at all if I could help it. But you know what your reasons were, and therefore your own criteria for 'failure' - although that is a harsh word you have chosen! :)

hiya
it shouldn't hurt your supply if it's just a one off here or there, no.
can't answer about her tummy, the vast majority of babies are absolutely fine with formula, but there is a small chance that she may not take well to it. when we swapped ds1 to formula we certainly found that some brands made him very sicky, others made him constipated. but again, if it's only a single bottle now and then i don't think it would have a huge effect
you could alwats try her with a small amount first to see if it's ok

and NO! it doesn't mean tou have "failed". it isn't a winning/losing thing.. it's a making the right decision for you when the time comes. it won't cancel out all goodness she gets from breastfeeding.

that said, if you think you'll feel guilty about it, then don't do it cos there's nothing worse than living with something that you feel guilty about and c ould have prevented. iyswim. but i don't think you have any reason to feel guilty anyway!

Thanks for your replies! What is the Virgin Gut theory, Alibaba?
thisisyesterday - I know it isn't winning/losing, and I'm being silly...it's not a competition. I think in a way the longer you go with just breast milk, the harder it gets. I find myself guiltily looking at formula in the supermarket, like some alcoholic!!

I did the same as I'm rubbish at expressing - doesn't seem to have done ds any harm and he had no trouble with formula. I'm not convinced by this virgin gut theory anyway so that wasn't an issue for me.

well, i believe in the virgin gut theory but there were times when i would happily have given ds2 formula befause he just cried ALLLLLLLL the time and i needed a break
he is dairy intolerant tho, so i couldn't lol

virgin gut theory

it's worth noting tho that any "damage" done to the gut by other substances can be reversed by exclusive breastfeeding for a couple of weeks

Re the virgin gut, I really wanted to preserve this for DS, but he had to have medicine very early, and has ever since, so has that messed it up anyway?

Sorry to hijack Olivetti!

To answer you, I used to think that if I gave DS formula it would be a huge failing on my part, but I think compared to some of the medicine I've had to give him formula would probably be the least of his problems. He had some at around 6-9 weeks, and I was so upset about it, and worked really hard to go back to EBF to try to restore the gut, but I've recently realised that that only holds true if you're only giving them BM, so I think with his medications all me efforts were pointless :( So last night, aged 20 weeks, I gave him 2 formula top ups of 2oz.

I am a bit upset with myself, but yesterday morning I woke up so exhausted that when DH tried to leave for work I sobbed and clung to him like a child, and I begged him not to leave me with DS, and then I begged him to take DS away with him, and on and on (none of which he could do). I have never felt to ill and awful in my life. Last night DS slept from 7.30-11.15, 11.30-3.05 and then 3.25-7.10, which doesn't seem like a huge stint for formula feeds, but to me was the most amazing thing in the world, DS usually wakes hourly or more. And this morning I don't hate him, or myself. I don't feel like crap. And I'm not crying. Which is not a bad trade for 4oz of formula. So actually, even with the tiny guilt, I feel much better than I have in weeks.

I don't plan to do it often, but I do think I have changed my definition of 'success and failure' when it comes to feeding DS.

DS is dairy intolerant too, but it was hydrolysed protein formula, which oddly is probably better for him than my milk temporarily, as he was only just diagnosed and I only started cutting out dairy this week, so for a few days I'll still be making him ill.

Sorry for the long post!

tiy - :)

Olivetti - don't feel guilty. I got very stubborn about BFing because I had so many people tell me that I couldn't possibly EBF DS after all the problems we had with establishing feeding (bad latch, thrush - me and him, mastitis, low supply, poor weight gain etc etc). Once I had it nailed and felt confident, which was around 9-10 weeks, I was determined to carry on - and actually found it very easy to do so from that point onwards.

That was my personal decision, and my battle though, so just make whatever decisions seem right for you and your DD :)

Flingon - you poor thing! I'm glad today is a better day :)

Flingon - you poor thing!! Thanks for taking the time to post, especially with everything you've been going through. Well, my little girl has had infacol, calpol, gripe water, so I guess that lays the virgin gut to bed in itself?

I thought the same Olivetti - my ds had many worse things than formula And I gave him solids before 6 months anyway.

The virgin gut theory is concerned with foreign proteins rather than medication, because proteins breach the gut wall more damagingly...at least that's my understanding.

My dc has had around 3 -4 bottles of formula a week since she was about 2 weeks old. I think that it is great that some women manage to bf exclusively, however I really struggled in the first few weeks and knowing I could have a break from time to time made a huge difference and stopped me giving up. I have no guilt about this as she has bm most of the time, and i dont think the occasional 'ready meal' makes that much difference. I've always had plenty of milk though luckily and it never caused a problem with supply,although she is still feeding every 2.5-3 hrs so probably has less of an effect than if she was going 4hrs+ so appreciate it might not work the same for everyone. Never had any problems with constipation either.

Gosh, I've just joined MN because I'm havinng problems with my 5 month old EBF little girl during the night - waking between 4 and 7 times, being bf in bed with me (sometimes falling asleep together too - oops!) and so on. I've thought hunger, I've tried baby rice recently, tried feeding her on top, rather than in the bed, tried leaving her crying - all to no avail. My Mum has said for a good few weeks now to give her formula milk to help her sleep longer at night and I've kept putting that idea to the back of my mind. (Not for the virgin gut theory, obviously. ) In fact I have no idea why I'm so anti a bit of formula but now the sleep deprivation is definately taking its toll. My husband (is that initial DH? or is it just that everyones husbands could be a Dave or a Darren?) is equally keen on ff at night, not just so he can be involved in her feeding, but also so that I am a nicer person to live with with a bit more sleep. Flingon you seem to have had a rough old time, and try as I might on my first surf through the MN threads, I think yours is perfect for me - we are experiencing the same unfounded guilt, and we dont really know why we feel that way! If tonight is as bad as it has been for the last month, then I'm out tomorrow to buy formula and I'm going to give her a good long swig of that in those dark and lonely middle of the night hours. Thanks

I FF DS1 and have now suceeded in BF DS2 (13wks). We give him a bottle once a week in order to keep him in the habit so I can leave him if I need to. I tried expressing but couldn't get much out and never knew when was best to do it either because his feeds are so random. We now give him a FF in his bottle - usually DH does it on the weekend.

It hasn't affected my supply (although I wouldn't give him the bottle if I suspected a growth spurt because it's more important that he feeds off me at those times), he has had no problems with it whatsoever and I don't consider it a failure at all. He gets the vast majority of his nutrition as BF and the occasional bottle allows him and DH some bonding time and me some freedom with no ill effect on DS so I see it as everyone winning really

I can't express for toffee and so don't bother, DD has one bottle of formula every night at 10pm and has since she was 6 weeks old.

1. Will it effect my supply? Yes and no, if it's just every now and then no it won't hurt your supply. If, like me, you give a regular formula feed then you will probably have less supply at that feed. HOwever saying that the odd occasion when I do b/f at 10pm DD seems happy enough with what I have.

2. Will it hurt her tummy as she is used to EBF?
   Not sure, doesn't seem to with my DD.

3. Does it mean I have failed???
   Fuck no. I hate breastfeeding, hate it, the only thing that is keeping me going is the fact I can use formula if I wish to get a break. What is better feeding for 11 months with a formula bottle a day or breastfeeding for 6 weeks and then going to exclusively formula?

1. I wouldnt think so by now. Try fenugreek or similar if youre worried tho

2)Again, I wouldt think so. My DD has 1 bottle of formula a day and it seems to make no difference to nappies, any random bouts of tummy ache etc.

3. Surely 'success' is a happy, healthy, baby who gains weight. If you have that, with predominantly BF, then youre doing a good job. I would think the odd afternoon out will help you to relax, to be 'you' and to continue to do a good job :)

HTH

I don't know about everyone else but at that stage I was able to leave my son with my partner for an afternoon - say 4 or 5 hours without him screaming for a feed. I did have milk in the freezer as backup but it hasn't been needed. He is now 18 weeks old and I do leave them to it for an afternoon now and again (took myself off to see the King's Speech was fab!).

I don't really see much wrong with giving her a bottle of formula every now and then though if she really needs it..

Oh gosh, you know there is nothing like breastfeeding to bring out the latent perfectionist in a woman.

Yes there is the virgin gut theory (which incidentally I am puzzled as to how you can "believe" or not believe unless you are a specialist in the field. It seems to make sense to me but I have no idea if it has any basis in science or not.) But honestly the main point about the virgin gut, as I understand it, is that it is most relevant if there is a real risk of allergies. Otherwise at 15 weeks I shouldn't think it should be a major factor in your decision.

The idea of your DD having a perfect "virgin" gut is very appealing to the perfectionist EBF mother (I know because I was obsessed about re-establishing it). But really there are more concrete realities that are probably more important. Like you getting a break.

I can't talk though, because my approach to the shopping dilemma was to get DH to meet me so I could feed DD.

Hi everyone
Thanks so much for all your responses. I have her a formula bottle mixed with what I was able to express on Friday night, and she drank it happily. BUT....she is constipated. I guess it's just because her tummy isn't used to it. Any tips for constipation??

Warm bath, massage tummy and bicycling legs.

Dear god oh how I wish I had introduced a bottle of formula when DS was tiny. Only now can I leave him with his dad - DS is 8 months!

Fennel tea is good if you feel you're supply drops.
Isn't a bottle of warm (not hot obviously) water good for constipation in babies?

Hi Olivetti
I have given DD a bottle of formula a day (at 7pm, before bed) since she was a couple of weeks old. Our choice to do this has been marvellous for us and hasn't had any adverse effects on her as far as I can tell. It has given me a break from BFing and allowed DH to be part of her feeding. It also helps get baby used to a bottle if you ever want to go out and leave her with a babysitter or grandparent. So your life can be more flexible with occasional bottle feeding. It helped baby's sleep too, as my natural supply was lower in the evenings so giving her a bottle satisfied her hunger more easily.

Constipation is actaully worse in a BF baby; a BF baby can go up to 10 days without a poo beleive it or not! Mine went for 8 days without one...

My only advice is to not mix pumped breast milk with formula. They have different compositions so you're better off giving either one or the other.

I wasn't a fan of pumping and found it a bit of a faff so I just decided that we'd give one bottle of formula a day, every day. My supply adjusted and it was fine. On the odd occaision I did pump I stockpiled milk in the freezer. It's been great to have that supply to mix with baby rice etc now that DD's moving on to solids.

Hope that helps
Don't angst about feeding; just do what suits you. Life's too short to become a mummy martyr.

Constipation in babies isn't a matter of how long they go without a poo, it's whether the poo is hard (and hurts). Bf babies may not poo so much because bm leaves far less waste product.

DS regularly goes 7-10 days without pooing (10 this last time). He is not constipated. As long as it comes out yellow and soft it's not a problem. More than 10 days is considered to be a concern.

If it's just that she hasn't pooed since you gave it to her don't worry and don't feel guilty. Their rhythms for that kind of thing can change quickly.

If she has pooed and it was hard and painful then she is constipated. You might want to try a different kind of formula.