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Infant feeding

Get advice and support with infant feeding from other users here.

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Original poster

What to do about a "lazy" EBF baby plus a suitable bottle/teat to use while I am in hospital

32 replies

SweetApril · 03/03/2011 08:46

Hi there. I wonder if anyone can help.

DS (8wks) is EBF but it has been a real struggle in terms of weight gain (very slow) and generally because he is such a slow/lazy feeder. Takes at least 1.5 hours to feed because his sucking becomes less strong after a few minutes and he often falls asleep there very quickly and no amount of tickling, undressing etc will disturb him.

If anyone has any tips on how to improve this or at least can suggest if/when he might improve by himself I would be extremely grateful. I saw a breastfeeding counsellor at the beginning and go to a peer support group every week but there doesn't seem to be a great deal of advice to sort this out. I tried breast compression (found article from link on here) but it doesn't seem to make any difference.

Also I have to have a hospital test in the next couple of weeks and have been told I'm not able to bf for 24 hours afterwards. I'm planning to start expressing this week and store it in the freezer to give him during that time and to express during the 24 hours to keep up supply even though I'll have to chuck it out. Anyway, can anyone recommend a suitable type of bottle to use during that time - basically one that's not too 'easy' and therefore likely to make him even lazier at the breast. Also, how much am I supposed to give him at each feed? I really don't have the foggiest!

TIA

OP posts:

Original poster

SweetApril · 03/03/2011 08:48

Sorry, in terms of how much I give at each feed, I should have said he will be 10wks by the time I have the test. Thanks!

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HappyAsASandboy · 03/03/2011 09:08

I don't have any advice about sleepy feeders, but recommend Breastflow bottles. They have two teats, one inside the other, so baby has to 'chomp' then suck to get milk, making it more like breastfeeding. I have drunk eater from said bottles to test, and can promise that just sucking doesn't really work! Mothercare sell them and they're on Amazon too.

Good luck

HappyAsASandboy · 03/03/2011 09:09

*water not eater .....

Original poster

SweetApril · 03/03/2011 10:58

Thanks, Happy. I'll get some of those. And I've just found a milk "calculator" on Kellymom so I should be able to work out how much to give.

All I need now are some top tips for getting this baby to feed more efficiently! Or even if someone could give me some hope that these 1.5 hour long feeds will eventually turn into ten-minute feeds - that would be fab

It's all very well and good at home in front of the TV but going out and about is a pain because as soon as DS gets hungry I know I'm stuck for ages - finding a cafe or somewhere to sit is all well and good but not when they're closing in half an hour or when I've got DD(4) with me. She's pretty good but 1.5 hours of colouring and drawing is a tall order. Help!

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japhrimel · 03/03/2011 12:37

Can you get some irl help with positioning? An infant feeding specialist helped DD and I when she wasn't feeding efficiently early on.

crikeybadger · 03/03/2011 12:54

Agree with japhrimel- his latch might need some adjustment to get him to transfer milk a bit better (and faster).

You could try switch nursing. When he looks like he's slowing down a bit, put him on the other breast. You can keep swapping sides like this.

You say his weight gain is slow.... Is he following a line on the chart or dropping? What's his average gain per week?

Original poster

SweetApril · 03/03/2011 12:54

I got some irl help in the first couple of weeks but positions seem a bit limited as I am very big-boobed.

Can I ask what position you changed from/to, if it's not too complicated to explain, Japhrimel? Did it make your DD suck harder or improve the latch or take less time or all of the above?

Whatever I do, I can't get DS to suck more efficiently. I know he can do it because he starts off fine...before he snuggles down... And on a very few occasions (like maybe twice) he has sucked super well and drained the breast quite quickly. I don't think it's a latch issue. He certainly isn't latched on differently when he sucks well.

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Original poster

SweetApril · 03/03/2011 13:00

CrikeyB - I'll give switch nursing a try but he'll sometimes only be on a few minutes before he starts snoozing - does that matter?

He lost about 15% of his birthweight (8lb 4oz) so MW monitored closely. My milk took five days to come in. He was back to birthweight by three weeks and has since gained 4-5oz per week. He is now 10lbs 2oz and creeping slightly precariously along the 9th centile.

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crikeybadger · 03/03/2011 13:30

Average weight gain for 0-4 months is between 5-7oz per week according to kellymom, so that sounds Ok doesn't it?

As soon as he starts to snooze, then just try him on the other side. I think rugby ball hold is better for sleepy babies as the cradle hold is a bit more sleep inducing (as its name suggests).

Being on the 9th centile is fine (IMO) but I can see why you'd like to see the length of the feeds speeding up.

Maybe it's just a case that he'll speed up as he gets bigger and stronger.

Original poster

SweetApril · 03/03/2011 13:57

I saw that on kellymom but I guess I'm only seeing the negative side so the difference between gaining 4oz and 7oz seems vast!

TBH am concerned the rugby hold will mean he's a bit smothered as I am very large-boobed and it's tricky to find any position where his face is not entirely covered by boob. But I will give it a go.

I have plenty of friends whose babies were on the 9th centile but because he started so much higher it doesn't make you feel very confident when you look at the dreaded Red Book.

Thanks for your support!

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TittyBojangles · 03/03/2011 15:41

I have no idea what type of test you are having but is it possible they have it wrong about not bf for 24 hours? I only say this as there seems to be a lack of understanding about drugs etc effecting bf and often hospitals just say 24 hours to be safe when in reality feeding straight away may be fine. This may well not be relevant in your situation though.

crikeybadger · 03/03/2011 16:18

Agree TittyBojangles- you can ring a pharmacist at the Breastfeeding Network if you want to check the info.

Original poster

SweetApril · 03/03/2011 16:24

Thanks, ladies. I will def ring the Breastfeeding Network to double check. The hospital were very specific though. It's an injection I have to have that apparently passes into breastmilk. It's a test I've had a number of times and the effects of the drug are pretty weird for me so I'm presuming really not good for DS.

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MamaChris · 03/03/2011 17:21

re positions, I have pretty enormous boobs, and can now feed in almost any position - I think of it a bit like yoga . rugby hold is quite easy if I round my shoulders just slightly (so nipple pointing a little bit downish rather than straight out), then latch a baby, then shove pillows under arm to support the arm that's holding the baby's shoulders. the key I find is not to raise the baby too high, otherwise I have to raise my boob too, better to position baby lower down than someone who had smaller boobs would do, if that makes sense.

moomaa · 03/03/2011 21:22

Does he feed more quickly if there is a bigger gap between feeds? Just thinking about how much mine gobble in the morning after a long break!

japhrimel · 03/03/2011 21:57

The specialist got me feeding DD in classic cradle position instead of the cross cradle position I was told to use in hospital. No cushions, no faffing with props, etc.

Key with cradle position is pulling the baby in very tightly so their chin gets into the boob - the specialist said it was usual that first time Mums are too gentle for it to work!

Original poster

SweetApril · 04/03/2011 13:57

Tried the rugby hold this morning and he practically choked with the shock of it! But I think if I persevere he'll be OK and there's less chance of him dozing off cos he'll have to concentrate harder.

MamaChris - do you find when feeding in the cradle position that you have to support your boob? I'm having to do this 90% of the time and it means I don't have a hand free to drink my tea and eat my biscuits do my important paperwork.

Japhrimel - the widgy pillow has really saved my back so I couldn't do without it now. I do keep his chin tucked in as far as possible but it's a bit of a pain cos I don't always have a hand free to keep him pulled in if he gets sleepy.

And I've done a bit more research into the drug thing after TittyB posted and it seems that 24hrs abstinence is possibly excessive. The hospital are checking the precise name and dosage of the drug. It's a contrast dye. When I have that info I'll call the Breastfeeding Network pharmacist. I also found out online about some guy called Dr Tom Hay (I think that was his name) who seems very knowledgeable. Think he's probably American. Anyone heard of him?

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TittyBojangles · 04/03/2011 15:22

Is it omnipaque/visipaque?

MamaChris · 04/03/2011 15:24

cradle or cross cradle? in either case, though, no. cradle, I rest a head on my forearm just below my elbow, and a bottom in my hand, then rest my arm on my leg, sometimes with a very small pillow between leg and arm. cross cradle, I definitely need a pillow to support my baby holding arm, but again not a huge one. when I fed ds1 I did used to support boob and baby and in was a PITA. when I was pregnant this time a bf counsellor said she thought it would be easier adjust myself to hold the baby where my boob was, instead of trying to move my boob to where the baby was, iyswim. don't know if I'm explaining it right. now I look at where my boob is, position baby's head, body, according to that, latch on, then add pillow(s) as required so my baby holding arm doesn't drop off. I think I used to start with the pillow, add baby, then try and hoik boob and shuffle baby around till the two met.

I found the cradle hold harder to get the hang of, and the dts need to be able to latch themselves in that position, but once I did I preferred it because I really can feed anywhere with no pillows.

the other piece of good advice I had was to experiment lots, so try lying down, leaning back, baby at funny angles to find something that suits. there's no one way that will suit everyone :)

TittyBojangles · 04/03/2011 15:32

this link from kellymom is about contrast agents. I am presuming this is either omnipaque or visipaque you are having during an x-ray or CT procedure. The info says bf does not need to be interrupted. PM me if you like, I'm in the business so may be able to help.

japhrimel · 04/03/2011 15:32

Part of getting cradle hold right is learning to sit up straight with it. Although I'm short I have a very long body so I think you'd have to be very very tall or have a teeny premie to physically not be able to manage it.

DDs head rests on my forearm, my thumb is across her shoulder blades to hold her on and my fingers pull/push her into me - it's one handed except if we're on a too high chair and I need to support her more. At first latching was trickier, but once you've got the hang of it, cradle hold is a go-anywhere position.

The infant feeding specialist emphasised bringing baby to where your nipple hangs naturally, not try and bring big boobs up.

This works for us. I wish every Mum got 1-on-1 with a proper specialist!

japhrimel · 04/03/2011 15:35

Oh and if your LO isn't getting their chin tucked well in, they are unlikely to be able to feed very efficiently. That you struggle to keep that suggests to me that it could be part of your problem.

TruthSweet · 04/03/2011 16:13

The guy you want is Dr Tom Hale - he writes the textbook Medications and Mother's Milk (a meta analysis of all available data on each drug) and runs the Infant Risk Center in the US (a national centre for medications and pregnant/breastfeeding women).

Links to his forums:-

His old forum (used prior to Infant Risk Center being set up)

Not much info on yet but do check

Ask your hospital to check the M&MM textbook (the hospital pharmacist should have a copy) not the BNF as the BNF tends to be uber-conservative on the abstaining from bfing front.

Original poster

SweetApril · 04/03/2011 17:27

Wow, you are all so brilliantly helpful! I will investigate the other cradle hold - tbh I didn't know before that there was more than one. Will google some online pix.

TittyB - I don't know which it is yet. Waiting to hear back from the hospital. It's an MRI. I'm intrigued as to which business you're in - medicine or boobs!

Today I have a new problem. My periods just started. Someone please tell me that's not going to affect my milk supply. I'm fairly overweight and I read it's more common in larger ladies, something to do with oestrogen being made in fatty tissue, but I don't know if that's actually true. Honestly, what a con. This breastfeeding lark is hard work at the mo and I thought I was supposed to get a break from all that other stuff

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TittyBojangles · 04/03/2011 18:13

It is almost certainly gadolinium then which is on the kellymom link. But check with the radiology dept themselves (your consultant is not likely to know about contrast and scans etc ime) so just ring the MR ppl and speak to a radiographer to confirm what contrast they use.
HTH

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