This can't be Cluster Feeding! Help...

[mudsharkbaby]

My partner is BF our first baby, who is now 9 days old. She was born via a forceps delivery (not sure if this could be relevant or not).

She falls asleep on the breast.

In the day, she sleeps for 5 mins max before waking up and rooting/lipsmacking for more with maybe 1 or 2 times being asleep for an hour before waking for more BF.

If she is moved, whether in light or heavy sleep, she wakes up and wants the breast.

In the night, she may sleep for 2 hours in total throughout, but the rest of the time she is on the breast.

I think, a couple of these 9 days, she has slept for 3 hours before a feed but this is unusual.

As you can imagine, this is really exhausting my partner. She is really fed up, at her wit's end and would love there to be a solution, as would I.

The crying if not placed on the breast isn't attention, it isn't illness, it isn't about being too hot/too cold, she hasn't got tongue tie and I can't see that this is cluster feeding as every post I have read talks about it being for a period of time or due to a growth spurt.

This is every day and every night so far.

Is the only solution a pacifier? We are not keen on this or on expressing this early as this may make continuing BF difficult.

We would love to hear from other parents who have been through this and how they dealt with it.

Thanks

Normal newborn behaviour - babies want to be at the breast pretty much constantly at first! I co-slept at first to maximise sleep.

It does soundnormal, I'm afraid. Your poor partner must be exhausted, but it won't last forever - thank goodness!

At 9 days old (congratulations by the way :) ), the constant feeding may be as much about comfort as it is about establishing a milk supply. She is so little and new that she doesn't realise she is separate from your partner yet.

The only practical suggestion I can offer is to try a sling or carrier. Take it in turns to wear it - your daughter may find the motion soothing, and she will enjoy the closeness.

Apart from that, try to let your partner rest whenever she can, bring her food/drinks, and generally try to look after her during this time (I'm sure you already are though).

It sounds like my DD too. A Moby wrap sling worked well for her. She would settle comfortably in it for her father and that meant he could take her out for a walk for an hour or so whilst I got a break. Your partner may also find she can actually breastfeed with baby in the sling (though I must admit I never mastered this art!) which would enable her to at least move around.

We did use a dummy from about 4 weeks. I didn't want to but DD was very unsettled unless sucking and sometimes (e.g. in the car) bf-ing simply isn't possible. In a few weeks once your partner is confident the latch is OK and that baby is feeding effectively you might want to try one. DD spontaneously rejected the dummy at 6m and so we just stopped using it then. Not all babies are this willing to relinquish them though!

Expressing this early so you can give a bottle is possible, but may just create more work for your partner and not actually solve anything. If you can do as much as possible bar the feeding that may help more.

Honestly it will stop very soon, hopefully in the next few weeks. My neighbour has 4 kids and he told me you should just do whatever it takes to make your baby happy because happy kids are the easiest to raise. I found that very helpful. And used to sit and remind myself that all the effort I put into comforting DD when she was tiny was an investment in her future security and happiness. You may not get the dividends right away but you will enjoy them in the future I promise.

I definitely agree, slings are amazing, I still wear my 8 and a half month old most of the time out of the house as she still feeds 10 or more times a day. The first few weeks are exhausting but your baby will soon realise she is her own person and stop being so attached to the breast.

I definitely agree, slings are amazing, I still wear my 8 and a half month old most of the time out of the house as she still feeds 10 or more times a day. The first few weeks are exhausting but your baby will soon realise she is her own person and stop being so attached to the breast.

It may well be normal ... But also sounds like your dd could have tongue tie. If she does she has to work harder to get her milk( hence why she falls asleep athe breast as v tiring) also if not drawing milk out correctly then she won't be satisified and need to feed again almost immediately after.

Has she been checked for this? My ds had this and we had it snipped at 2 weeks old. Bfing improved straight away as he was able to latch correctly and get the milk more effectively.( however we gave up shortly after due to damage caused and thrush etc).

Having said that i am clearly no expert, so it could all just be normal behaviour, worth asking midwife or breastfeeding counsellor to check.

Congratulations and good luck

Hth

Tounge tie is posible and so is an inefficent latch. So it probably is worth speacking to a BF counciler to have this double checked.

Helplines

National Breastfeeding Helpline
0300 100 0212

NCT Breastfeeding Helpline
0300 330 0771

La Leche League Helpline
0845 120 2918

Association of Breastfeeding Mothers
08444 122 949

As long as feeding doesn't hurt and baby is having lot's of wet and dirty nappies then it's more likly just normal newborn behavier. As other have sugested a sling is great for newborns they just want to be close and held all the time.

For your information Kellymom has great info on what to expect in the early days www.kellymom.com/bf/normal/index.html.

Congratulation and good luck

Again, I agree that this all sounds normal. Your LO will want to be on your DP/you practically ALL the time at the moment - this WILL change. Try not to stress about changing this too much as it will change on its own. The breast isn't just for food - its a connection to a place she has lived for the last 9 months.

You say that she occasionally goes 3 hours between feeds, 3 hours is a loooong time for a 9 day old. I would expect to be feeding more often than this, so don't worry that something is wrong if she isn't going 3 hours between feeds.

I can't see that this is cluster feeding as every post I have read talks about it being for a period of time or due to a growth spurt She is getting your DPs supply established and increased to meet her needs. 9 days is so tiny.

Your DP sounds like she is doing great. The best thing she can do is relax, sit down, eat cake, watch telly or whatever and just feed feed feed. It will be really helpful that you are supportive and if you can just do EVERYTHING else, bring food/cups of tea, take LO out for a short walk while DP grabs a bath etc. And keep reminding your DP that this WILL pass, honestly

Again, could definitely be normal - 3-10 days is kind of one growth spurt! Plus they just want the comfort of Mum back.

3 hours between feeds would be too long a regular gap for a newborn anyway.

If you're not happy co-sleeping (we weren't at first but have since looked into the health & safety aspects and got more set up for it) then help your OH feed whilst lying down and watch over them while she feeds and dozes. Makes a huge difference being able to do this.

hi mudshark - when was she last weighed, are the midwives happy with her weight gain so far? And is she pooing every day? If answer to these is Yes, then there is no need to worry as she is simply doing what she needs to do in order to kick-start your DP's milk supply - ie feeding very very frequently, day and night. If the answer is No, then you need to seek advice from a breastfeeding counsellor ASAP to improve her latch.

Restricting her access to the breast at this point (e.g. by distracting with a dummy, scheduling or offering formula top-ups) will all hinder the establishment of a good milk supply - so are not recommended if you are both keen to continue with breastfeeding. Plus, of course, no-one wants a 9 day old baby to be going hungry.

I know the unpredictable nature of feeds, and their frequency, can be pretty disconcerting at first. It's exhausting, but this stage doesn't last for long - and the more you can go with it, the quicker it passes. Also echo the PP's tip about breastfeeding lying down - an absolute life-saver when they're tiny.

Good luck, and hang on in there!!

Hi,

IMO, it never hurts to get baby's latch, positioning and milk transfer by a qualified expert - is there a breastfeeding group in your local surestart centre or could you contact one of the numbers above and get a breast feeding counsellor to come and watch your DD feed.

While frequent feeding is usual and to be expected, I would normally expect at least a couple of periods in the day where the baby sleeps for a bit longer than you describe.

You might want to consider the possibility that your DD has a headache or discomfort from the forceps and is feeding constantly for comfort/ease the pain. This happened to a friend of mine's baby and she was helped greatly by a cranial osteopath (sp?). Also there is the possibility of tongue tie as others have said.

But I do think you need to seek expert advice who can either set your mind at rest or suggest professional help or otherwise. Forceps are horrible (if necessary) things and I cannot see how they do not cause discomfort to babies.

hi, could you try keeping your baby awake when she is breast-feeding as she might not be getting enough milk at each feed? She may go longer between feeds if she is more full. Also, we didn't use a dummy at first as we were really against them, but after a few sleepless months :( we tried using one but to no avail, our DS wouldn't accept it. My point is, dont hang about in deciding whether to use a dummy or not as it may be too late! Hope this helps.

This sounds like my dses. I just made myself comfortable with radio an magazine day and night - psychologically it just felt better than constantly trying to get back to sleep.

Would you consider co-sleeping? Lying down to feed whild dozing really helped me feel better this time (I didn't do it last time).

It won't last for ever, even though it feels like it will. Ds soon started to sleep at night. Now at 4.5 months, I have the oppostite worry that he feeds quickly and not anywhere near as often as he did.

Breastfeeding is HARD work to start with, but there are long term gains once established.

There is nithing wrong with the baby just wanting a comfort suckle either IMO

I would rather feed a baby calmly for hours, than listen to a baby who wants to feed/ suckle cry for hours... Just a thought.

Good luck.

Thanks everyone for your responses, they have been very reassuring and helpful.

Saw the midwife today for what could've been the 10 day sign off but she wants to pop around on Sunday (2 days' time) to re-weigh her as she thought she may not have put on enough weight (she said the office scales were a little under what her travel scales recorded, but suspect this was a reassurance put-off til Sunday).

This suggests that she may not have been getting enough milk and have looked up Jack Newman's Breast Compressions website recommended from a woman on the NCTs Breast Feeding Hotline.

The midwife also recommended using a sling, so thanks everyone for that suggestion and my partner has got more rest from the BF lying down at night, for the last 5 nights, so yes, this is def. worth doing if anyone else is reading this with this problem. Certainly better than sitting up, I don't think she would have got ANY sleep if that was the case...

Midwife seemed pretty happy with the BF technique, although thought maybe baby could get more breast in her mouth, so will be trying harder on this now.

Baby def. does not have tongue tie as per my original post as I have checked myself. Baby is having plenty of wet and dirty nappies (I was surprised at how little they smelled but I guess I have that to come when weaning etc).

Cranial Osteopathy. Good call, as we had been suggested this before the birth. We know a friend who had this for her daughter and after gaining her recommendation have booked ours in for an initial appt and a follow up if required. It's a charitable service so they take what you can afford to pay, which is good. Will prob. pay the going adult rate if happy with it.

After watching the Newman videos on squeezing nipple and squeezing breast to show difference in milk flow (drip and great big squirts) we now wonder whether this may be the problem as she didn't produce great big squirts on the latter. What do you think?

Thanks everyone again, for your positivity; it really helps puts things into perspective.

:)

Oh and will check that Kellymom link too. Thanks

I haven't seen the Newman videos you mention but you indicate that your DW didn't produce big squirts when squeezing the breast. This sounds like me! I believe that some women produce milk more slowly (if you like) than other women. My milk only drips out, never flows quickly and I, like your wife, have always had to feed my DCs loads - little and often!

But if it reassures you, my DD was 10lbs 2oz at birth and is now 7 months old and exclusively breastfed for 6 months of that. And she's a fat, healthy baby. I think if you have a slow letdown, don't produce massive amounts of milk that you can squirt across the room etc, then it might mean that you have to feed more often to satisfy your baby but it can be done!

It honestly does get better and I would recommend that your DW continues to feed on demand not to a schedule and not give a dummy or try and fob the baby off in any way.

I am no expert btw, just personal experience so would still recommend talking to a breastfeeding counsellor if you need reassurance.

The Newman video is to illustrate the importance of a deep latch. Not being able to hand express in great squirts is irrelevant.

Since my last post, my partner has tried out the Biological Nurturing - Laid-back breastfeeding (biologicalnurturing.com) stance which highlighted the flexibility of having baby in differing positions and since baby has been latching on in a vertical position instead of horizontal(ish) she has had much more success.

Baby seems to have been getting more from the breast and is now sleeping more, giving my partner more opportunities for rest/sleep etc.

The midwife has signed baby off to the Health Visitor as she believes her weight gain since Friday is enough. We had been advised on Friday that Formula would have been the only option had she not gained enough and we are glad this is not required now. :)

Thanks again everyone.

Sounds like you're doing really well and I'm glad things are getting easier for you both. Just wanted to agree with everyone else that this is all very normal new born behaviour. Also just to reassure you a bit:

1. it sounds to me as if you both need to try to relax a bit. I remember so well the brain ache I had with my DC1 - every decision feels like a momentous one, you feel like there must be a right answer to everything or a right way of doing something. The truth is that things get gradually easier day by day andthat's largely because your confidence grows. I know how frustrating it is when everyone says to relax and go with the flow and that you must 'trust your instincts,' but it's absolutely true.

2. Slightly linked... you do know that you're not 'required' to do anything (re. your comment about formula and weight gain). MWs and HVs do seem to love putting new parents through the ringer about this. Your DC has been signed off at less than 2 weeks old. Wow! Just to put this in perspective for you - my DS didn't regain his birth weight until he was 6 weeks old, and DD was 4 weeks. Both were (and continue to be) very very healthy. It's your DD, if you think she's ok and doesn't need topping up, then stick with it! Totally not against topping up with formula, but the guilt trips dished out by health professionals with regards to weight gain do my head in!

Formula is hardly ever the only option. If it had got to that stage, it's a sign the MWs aren't being proactive enough at supporting bfing. We got told that too - I hate how hcps scare new mums with crap like this.

Sounds like you're all doing great.