FF just curious

[catwhiskers10]

This isn't a thread about FF vs BF.
I BF my DD so have never used formula and there's a few things I've wondered about.

1. if you formula feed from day one, does your milk still come in and if so what happens? Do they give you tablets to take it away or does it just go away itself?
2. just say you are going out and can't get hot water to make up a feed? What do you do? Or do the rules of 70c water and not making bottles up on advance not really work in practice?
3. do you feed formula "on demand" or to a schedule?
4. do you have to give the baby water aswell or is it an optional extra? I'm just being nosey really. :)

Hi. My DD is 8 years old now, so I'll just give you what I can remember and what was applicable at the time because I'm not sure about guidelines now.

1. Your milk does still come and dribbles all over the place for a couple of weeks, but then it goes away itself because you're not using it so your body just learns not to make it. I suppose it's in the same way as when you stop BF and then your body stops producing milk. 2)When I had DD, you were actively encouraged to make up bottles in advance, however I know that now you're not meant to BUT you can put boiled water into bottles and add the formula later. There was an occasion where my kettle broke and I found out that you can buy cartons of ready made formula and also buy one use sterilised bottles. So when I was particularly disorganised and didn't have enough bottles made up, I could pop to Boots and get supplies off the shelf :-) Expensive though, so didn't do it unless absolutely necessary.
2. I was told to feed formula on demand, but my friend had a DS last year and was told to feed on schedule. They change their minds about these things all the time just for kicks and giggles, I think!
3. I don't know if you have to give water as well, but there came a point where DD would cry for a bottle and then barely drink it and the health visitor said she may just be thirsty, so I started giving her water as well. Whether that was just my ignorance and I should have been giving her water from the start, or whether it isn't always necessary, I don't know. So I don't suppose I answered that bit very well! I hope that has satisfied your curiosity a bit!

Thanks, that has satisfied my curiosity apart from the bit about boiled water when out and about.
Maybe it's just me being dense but I thought the idea of using hot water was to kill germs on the formula so if the water is previously boiled but left to cool I don't see how it will kill the germs?

Ready made cartons when out and about.

You used to be able to make up bottles and keep in the fridge, but b the time I had no. 3 they'd changed it.
So I would make up 4 bottles then put in fridge and would add formula when ready to make up a bottle

cartons for out and about OR formula made properly (70 C water) in advance and then kept as cool as possible until need to heat it to feed baby.
I only do 2nd one if going to a house with a fridge!

You can get changing bags with insulated section so they would keep the water warm, surely? Or a flask?

I've seen some mums use water from a thermos when out and about. That should keep the water pretty hot surely?

Disclaimer: I've never used formula so just reporting what I've seen

I saw my BIL adding the milk powder to cold water for his baby and feeding it cold, that's what made me wonder. Didnt like to ask in case I came across like I was telling him he was doing it wrong or anything!! Anyone else I've seen seems to have a ready made bottle when out or cartons.

With both my DCs I was told by the HV that it was fine to make up bottle of water, cool it and then add powder as and when needed (as your BIL is doing).
I understand that the guidelines have changed now, but I only know this from mumsnet!! I am due DC3 soon and would probably ahve just gone about making up bottles the same way I did with the other DCs if I hadnt been on mumsnet.

I don't use formula either but saw a contraption the other day that you put the boiling water into and it cools it to the correct temp straight away. I thought it looked very clever! Lets see can I find it again....

1. Yes, my milk still came in. But went away again after 4-5 days

2. There are various different methods for making up feeds, depending on who you ask. We were told to make up bottles of boiling water, leave at room temp, and then add the milk powder when it was time for a feed. Not the official line, as it turns out...but it's worked great for us. No heating up or cooling down, just chuck in the powder and you're set.

The cases of contaminated milk are very few and far between, and not normally in this country. The water and the bottle are sterile, and the powder is put in seconds before the baby starts drinking. I'd never leave made up milk on the side, as that is asking for stuff to start growing.

We weren't planning to FF, so on coming home from hospital we had no clue what we were supposed to be doing. With a baby who was feeding hourly, making up bottles with boiling water and having to cool them down was just not working. We asked the midwife how we were supposed to keep up with her, and were told of tbis alternative way which made vastly more sense to us. So that's what we went with.

3. Yes, have always fed on demand. And have successfully BLW'd.

4. I think it depends on the baby and whether you follow a strict routine. I've heard of people offering water to eeek baby out between feeds, but never did. We offered her water when she was very tiny at the advice of the HV as she was eating for England and it was very hot...HV thought she might just be thirsty. But DD took one suck, realised it wasn't milk, and that was the end of that!

www.cooltwister.com/index_en.shtml

I can't find the website I originally found it on but it was about 20 or 30 quid

catwiskers - the water becomes sterile when you boil it and so when it is cooled down (provided it is in a sealed, sterile container) it will remain sterile. So if you've sterilised your bottles and then added boiling water and sealed the bottles, then you have sterile water ready to add the formula to.

But, monoid the powder isn't sterile and unless the water is at 70c or more it won't be able to make the powder sterile.

Oh, that's interesting - I didn't consider the formula not being sterile...
I know that two of my friends have been told to do it that way by the health visitor and their children seem to have survived.
Nothing is ever completely sterile and I think that children need a few germs here and there (and they certainly start chewing on all sorts of tat as soon as they can reach it!)
I also think this way is preferable as when I had DD, I made up a bottle and put it in the fridge, then put it in (what claimed to be) a thermal bottle bag. It was a hot day and a when I went to get the bottle a couple of hours later it had all gone lumpy and minging... this is how I discovered you could buy sterilised bottles and formula in cartons in Boots!

Oh dear me. How many more threads are we going to have on Mumsnet where people assert that "sterilising" the water by boiling is the main point? It has already been said, but I will say it again. It is the formula that is the problem - it can contain really dangerous bacteria that can make babies very ill indeed.

Under the current guidance, you still can "make up" bottles in advance and store in the fridge in required. As long as you realise that "making up" bottles involves adding the unsterile formula powder to water above 70 degrees, then cooling rapidly. NOT sticking boiling water in some bottles and cooling for use later.

I think it's terrible that so many HVs don't understand/give out the NHS/Department of Health advice! Parents rely on them for information [mad]

I seem to remember there were cases not long ago of babies in Belgium getting food poisoning from formula - apparently there it is much more common to make up the powder with cold water, so I guess there's more risk.

Udderly, that CoolTwister thing will only cool water to 40, 50 or 60 degrees. None of those are hot enough to kill the bacteria, so that device is not fit for purpose.

The potential presence of bacteria in formula does not just carry the risk of food poisoning. There can be extremely dangerous bacteria present which can cause very severe gastroenteritis or meningitis, and these have led to the death of some babies. Fatalities are thankfully rare, but the risk is there.

gaelicsheep - I'm sorry that I am so ignorant on matters of FF, which is embarassing given that I did it myself. Saying that, it didn't apply to me at the time as I was making bottles in advance. Although I was on Mumsnet for a brief period a while ago, I've just really come back a few days ago and I'm not aware of every thread that has ever happened.
I was giving the information that has been given to me - as RitaMorgan says, you rely on health visitors and midwives to give accurate information because as a new parent, you often rely on them for every health problem with your child. I was genuinely just trying to help with information that I believed to be true.

Monoid, I was not aiming my post at you personally. There are others on this thread, and countless others elsewhere saying the same things. Please don't think I was getting at you. I just get exasperated because these inaccuracies keep being recycled and reinvented. People continue to think it's fine to make up formula with col boiled water and I just want to scream with frustration.

When health visitors are telling people it is better to make bottles with cold water, and that actually the formula is "different" to how it used to be and is, in fact, now designed to be made that way, you have to expect that people are going to believe that!
I say this because I was with a friend a few years ago in Newcastle who was starting to bottle feed and was told exactly that about 4 years ago!
I now have another friend who was told to make it with cold water when she had her son a year ago.
How can the NHS justify giving out this information when it is wrong? Is there a good reason that you shouldn't make bottles up in advance and that they believe the cold water thing is preferable?

The Department of Health guidelines for HCPs are very clear: here. You can make up bottles in advance as long as the safe preparation guidelines are followed. Any HV advising a mother to make up formula using a dangerous method, ie cold water, should be reported IMO.

OP,

1. Milk came in but none leaked out. Went away by the end of same day. Wasn't a prob.
2. take already made up bottle from fridge, heat up in microwave/pan of water, go out
3. I did it on demand, but I would say it's easier to implement a schedule when FFing, if desired
4. nah, I only gave DD water twice when she seemed to be a bit constipated

Thanks for the link. They should give that out when you're in hospital and considering FF. I shall now impart my new found knowledge on anyone who cares to listen in RL!

There is this myth, even among HCPs, that HCPs are not allowed to talk to women about formula feeding. So those that do seem to think they are being a bit rebellious, and they're probably the ones who aren't up to date with the current guidance or think they know better. I totally agree that it is imperative that women who intend to formula feed, for whatever reason, are given clear instruction from the outset on how to do this safely.