Worried about low supply but cant pump

[Minnie24]

I am v concerned that my supply is dropping. LO feeds rubbish, for the last week only feeding for abour 4 mins 3 times during the day, and only 1 side per feed so going 6 hours or more without one side being fed off. Will feed longer in the evening and during the night but its obvious that the lack of stimulation during the day is having an effect. I have and tried and tried to use the pump but just cannot get anything out of it. By that I mean I am trying to pump out the side that hasnt been touched but nothing will come out. Anyonw else had this problem? Im really freaking out as I cannot get her to take a bottle.

Lots of people cannot pump although successfully bf, it is not a good indicator of supply. Have you tried hand expressing if this is what you want to do?

You don't say how old your LO is so its difficult to know if this feeding pattern is a big problem or not.

Don't worry - what you can or can't express is no indicator of supply.

How old is your baby though? Other signs that she is getting enough - is she having 7+ wet or dirty nappies per day? Is she alert and awake between feeds, or is she sleeping a lot of the time? (For a tiny newborn it's normal for them to sleep up to around 20 hours of the day - but not from about 6 weeks +) Is she showing any signs of dehydration? If she's over 6 months, does she have any solids at all?

Sorry, she is 16 weeks. Its not that I want to pump, its more that I really feel my supply is suffering as when she does want to feed more than 4 mins she starts to get really frustrated. And if she wants to go back on after 10/15mins or so she sucks but doesnt get anything. She is used to a fast milk flow from me so wont work for it. I used to be aware of getting more than 1 let down during a feed, but not anymore.

Also, slow down, don't panic - why do you need her to take a bottle? Is it just to see whether she will, or is there a particular reason you need/want to? If you're just trying to get her used to it then I'd leave it for now and try again in a few weeks. Getting them to take one early is no guarantee they will take one when older anyway so I'd save yourself the stress, if you can.

I found it easiest to pump one side while lo was feedingn from other. Do you still offer the other side afterwards ?

Ohh - 4 month growth spurt. Don't panic :) Try breast compressions - where you sort of squeeze the breast gently when she's on it, that will increase the flow and possibly make her less frustrated. If she's getting frustrated with the flow as well you can try swapping her to the other side even if it means you go back and forth a few times. If she wants to feed often, let her, she's probably trying to build up your supply for a growth spurt in the next few days. It doesn't matter if it feels like she's getting nothing out, she will be. There is always milk there.

It might be that your supply has regulated recently which can make you feel less "full" and is often a bit worrying - but actually it's fine, it's a good sign.

She does sleep quite a lot in the day - has 2 or naps, but when awake is mostly happy and alert. The reason I am panicking about her not taking a bottle is that because I feel my supply is dropping and I am worrying that she wont be able to get milk from me and wont take from a bottle.

I always offer both sides, but worry about swapping too soon in case she is only getting foremilk, but she really doesnt like it when the flow slows down. I do do breat compressions which does sometimes help.

Thanks for all your comments, I am really in a state about this at the minute and my health visitor isnt really much help.

is there a bf group locally you could go to?

Her sleeping/awake time sounds fine :) What about the nappies? 7+ is probably a bit many at 16 weeks, that's more a newborn pattern.

What makes you think your supply is dropping, apart from not being able to express? It's quite likely everything is fine and this is normal 4 month happenings:

• supply regulating so your boobs no longer feel "full" between feeds and are more floppy

• baby wanting to cluster feed a lot to build up your supply in preparation for 4 month growth spurt

• 4 month sleep regression - everything is fascinating during the day and baby is often distracted at the breast, so wants to feed more at night to make up for this

• breastfed babies' weight tends to plateau (the curve flattens off a bit) on centile graphs. This is most noticeable if using the old charts based on FF babies. I'm not sure whether they use these any more.

HVs are often a bit useless if they don't know much about breastfeeding. I overheard a conversation between a HV and mum the other day.
Mum: ...so I was thinking about starting to wean her.
HV: Oh no, you mustnt! She's only 13 weeks! No no definitely not, not until 17 weeks at the earliest.
Mum: Oh, ok. What can I do then? Should I maybe give formula?"
HV: Hmm, well you can but it's a slippery slope, you know.
Mum: I don't know what to do. I don't know if she's getting anything.
HV:

You might find this page on kellymom useful too - kellymom has fantastic info on breastfeeding. Milk Supply Issues

She probably has 6 wet nappies a day and poos once or twice a day. Its all the feelings that Bertiebotts describes that makes me thnk supply is dropping. That and not hearing her glugging so much and not leaking on the side that is not being fed from. All things which up until recently I was experiencing. Also the fact that with the little amount she is feeding during the day I get the sense of how on earth can my supply NOT be dropping. I havent relaxed about the feeding since the day she was born which unfortunately has not made it a pleasant experience for me.

Honestly that sounds just fine - that kellymom link says 5-6 wet nappies a day for a 4-6 month old baby, (See "Is my older baby getting enough milk?") - the other symptoms are normal and don't mean your supply is dropping. I had exactly the same and DS is 2.4 now and still feeding! In fact I think I only didn't worry because I hung around a lot of breastfeeding messageboards and knew some other breastfeeding mums and we all went through it at roughly the same time.

I second TittyBojangles - are there any groups near you? Look on the NCT website, at your local children's centres or the La Leche League website - it can really help just to meet some other breastfeeding mums who are having the same issues as you are or who have come through the other side.

It really sounds like you are doing great - don't worry, and well done! :)

I forgot to mention stopping leaking as well - this is another symptom of your supply evening out and is normal at 3-4 months.

I stopped leaking suddenly at about 4 months, after being very leaky before - my boobs also stopped feeling full about the same time. They never feel full now, even first thing in the morning after not feeding for 12 hours.

I also found at about 4/5 months ds got very distractable during feeds - I found feeding to sleep for naps, feeding as he was waking from a nap and feeding him in the middle of naps helped!

Don't worry about swapping too soon - the best way to increase your supply is to swap boobs every time she comes off. This might help maintain her interest during feeds too. You can offer 2, 3, 4 sides per feed if she'll take them.

I can't pump at all by the way - even recently when I was away from my ds for 24 hours I only got 60ml with the pump the whole time And ds is a very healthy 6 month old, so my supply must be fine!

BB - that is a shocking, but not suprising, conversation with the HV you overheard... why oh why is there so many ppl in positions of supposed support to mothers with so little understanding about bf?

If you can't make it to a bf group do you know any other bf women? Or could you try to go to the bf group once and maybe see if anyone lives more locally to you? I have found it so helpful to have the support of other bf women, if not, then there is always us here ;)