Improving the gape, and getting the tongue over the gums (and staying there!)

[podmumlet]

Hello ladies,

My 3.5 week baby boy was diagnosed with a moderate tongue tie and had a quick snip on Monday. I have read many of the tongue tie threads on Mumsnet and the sheer relief that most mums feel almost immediately after the tongue tie is snipped, is sadly not something that has happened to me.

There may be some other factors contributing to the pain (thrush, nipple trauma), which I am trying to sort, but could really do with some suggestions on how to improve baby's gape and open wider, and getting him to push his now looser tongue over his gums and for it to stay there cushioning the breast whilst feeding..

I have been attending two separate breastfeeding support groups and have been about 6 times. To be honest, I am not sure there is anything more that can be shown/told to me. I am told that the latch is looking good but there are definite telltale signs that all isn't right.

I see a veeeeeeery slight dimpling in the cheeks when baby sucks, the tongue isn't extended over the gums, the gape doesn't seem wide enough, there are continuous clicking and squelching sounds and I AM IN PAIN!

Are there any pointers anybody can pass on (bearing in mind the limitation of online support)? Maybe links to some websites with easy how-to steps or videos?

How do I..:

• get a wider latch?
• get baby to stick his tongue out when latching, and keep it there?

For example, I think that I have my nipple pointed towards the roof of baby's mouth, and I certainly try do the nose-to-nipple thing and bring baby to breast thing - but yet - I must be doing something wrong as it pains...

Baby is not very good in the Biological Nurturing positions. Always seems to bob his head and plop on, latching straight on the nipple. However, today, just the once, I think we got it right - and it didn't hurt for a moment......

Would paying for a private lactation consultant to come sit with me for a whole day be worth it?? I am slowly running out of options to make breastfeeding more comfortable, and I reeeeeeeeeeally want to continue...

Thanks in advance, and apologies for the rambling post.. :)

Things that have helped us...

Being patient (or trying to be!) and only latching DD on with a wide mouth. Also unlatching her and trying again if it wasn't right - to start with I had to give her a bit of ebm in a bottle first to take the edge off her hunger so she'd put up with faffing around.

The lower lip flip, as described by Dr Sears - look on askdrsears.com for quite a bit of bfing advice.

Realising that the point of nose to nipple is so their head is tipped back - when we were starting nose to nipple and DD was then lunging forward for the nipple it didn't work at all!

Only giving DD the teat with a bottle when she has her mouth wide open and her tongue down and out (we were on top-ups for a while, mostly of ebm).

I tried getting her to mimic me open my mouth and stick my tongue out but although she'll copy me sometimes, she ignores me when at the breast. Works for some people apparently though.

Fwiw DD didn't have tongue tie but had various feeding issues from being tube and then bottle fed to start with.

podmumlet - sorry things haven't got immediately better after the TT snip. There are still things that can be done and sometimes even a tiny tweak to the positioning can make a whole world of difference.

Have you seen any of Jack Newman's videos (he's North America's leading bfing specialist, runs a bfing clinic in Canada, writes books etc....)

The ones that might be the most helpful are 'Baby 28 hours old Baby Led Mother Guided Latching', 'Baby 28hours old Assisted Latching', '4 day old after tongue tie with compressions', 'Baby Led Mother Guided success', and 'Baby Led Mother Guided Started...' x2.

Also this really simple Russian animation is good at showing how to latch on (the writing isn't important - just the animation).

HTH and good luck.

Fwiw cross-cradle (what Dr Newman recommends) wasn't the best position for us, especially as DD grew. It did help at first though.

Agree - BFing really is all about doing what works now and moving on to something else when that ceases to work. Sometimes the bugger is finding what works now though!

Hi podmumlet I am in pretty much the same situation as you minus the tongue tie. I have quite a chompy 3 week old who like yours never manages to get her tongue over the lower gum. It is so painful and had caused some nipple damage and recurrent bleeding, and yes, a LOT of pain and tears.

I have also had several BF councilors and midwives observing me and they seem to think the latch is good however I always end up with a flattened nipple with a ridge where the gums have had a good chomp. It is starting to feel like she has teeth coming as her gums are feeling almost sharp and I get a constant scraping feeling as she sucks. It is just about bearable but makes feeding time quite tense and miserable.

I have almost got to the stage of giving up and had a late night/early morning dash to the 24 hour tescos to buy some formula. I really was breast feeding to work though so have held off using it for now.

I'm just wandering how you are getting on now and if you found a solution that worked. It seems impossible for me to see it resolving unless the baby just decides to do it for herself....but hope you are doing better now.

Please give me hope.