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Infant feeding

Get advice and support with infant feeding from other users here.

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Original poster

Baby screaming even after breast feed

18 replies

lucyjack · 15/02/2011 16:41

My 8 day old grandson is not latching on properly to his mum's breast so wasn't getting enough milk. Midwife suggested combination feeding so now he's having 8 2oz feeds a day, four expressed breast milk and four formula.

He's taking his feed, sleeping for about half an hour then screaming right through to his next feed. He's also having very runny nappies with the last one really watery.

He lost 7% of his birth weight in the first week which midwife says is normal. His mum's coping really well with the sleep deprivation and her partner lives with her and is supportive, but she's worried about why baby's screaming shortly after a feed as well as before.

He's her first baby and she's wondering if this is normal. Can anyone offer reassurance please?

OP posts:

Lulumaam · 15/02/2011 16:45

was anything done to help the baby latch properly?

the first thing that I think - the baby is hungry. therefore crying and unsettled . 8 feeds a day is approx every four hours. nowhhere near enough and nowhere near enough to ensure the breast milk supply meets the demand

she should not be letting him cry until the next feed is due.. a feed is due , not according to the clock, but the baby .

i would suggest some breastfeeding support via NCT or ABM or La leche...

runny nappies not what you should get in a newborn... breastfed poo is more splatty than formula poo, but should not be watery

bagpusswasthebest · 15/02/2011 16:46

The screaming is indicative of colic so get some infacol asap & try that. BF babies have runny nappies but watery isn't a term I like - as he's only 8 days the midwife should still be on 24/7 call & visiting daily so perhaps a phone call to her would be good? Nothing worse than worry.

And what a lovely Grandma you are!

Original poster

lucyjack · 15/02/2011 16:55

Thank you lulumaam. Baby does seem to cry a lot and I think my daughter would be feeding him all day if she fed whenever he cries. The thing is, he doesn't suck - as if he's NOT hungry - if she tries to feed him in between times.

Bagpuss, thanks. The midwives have visited every second day since the first two days he came home, but today cancelled their visit as they were too busy. My daughter had to ring and ask them to visit anyway as she's worried about the screaming, weight loss and watery nappy.

I did think colic - can 8 day old babies get that? - but baby's not showing any sign of discomfort other than screaming, not drawing his knees up etc.

If midwife visits later hopefully she can check baby out as my daughter will show her the latest runny nappy.

OP posts:

Lulumaam · 15/02/2011 16:59

thing is with a new born, their stomach is the size of a malteser. it needs filling little and oftne and feeding is not just about filling hte tummy but about comfort and holding and cuddling too

how many hours between feeds is she leaving?

bagpusswasthebest · 15/02/2011 17:03

My ds1 had colic from day 5 and also, coincidentally, didn't draw his legs up at all. Maybe theres different types of colic? I agree though that your daughter should offer a feed as it could be he's a hungry boy & needs more. My ds2 was a very very lazy feeder & would have happily spent all day latched on. Could be your grandson is falling asleep whilst feeding & not 'dreamfeeding' as they call it now (feeding whilst asleep)...hence being hungry.

How big was he at birth? My ds2 (the lazy feeder) was same weight as his brother but so much skinnier so he needed feeding up...

Mahraih · 15/02/2011 17:30

I don't have advice as I'm a rookie, but am going through similar experiences (screaming, 10% weight loss, baby not 'seeming hungry') so just passing on my sympathy - your daughter isn't alone in this!

Original poster

lucyjack · 15/02/2011 18:36

lulumaam, the midwife advised 3 hours between feeds as baby wasn't sucking long enough so midwife reckoned he wasn't hungry because he was being fed too often!

Bagpuss, I will tell my daughter to mention the possibility of colic. I did think they had to be older before the chance of colic but your baby seemed similar.

Baby weighed 7lb 6oz at birth.

My own son, many years ago, would've just stayed asleep all day with the bottle in his mouth making no attempt to suck at all. I know how stressful it all is!

Mahraih, thanks for the sympathy. It's hard going, isn't it? Hope your baby settles soon.

OP posts:

bagpusswasthebest · 15/02/2011 19:21

lucyjack I've just been refreshing myself on colic & I read the following...

"In most cases colic usually develops in the second or third week of baby's life"

So as your little man is 8 days it would fit. My ds1 was 5 days as I say but he was a bit early too so different situation perhaps. Hope its sorted soon anyway!

Lulumaam · 15/02/2011 20:12

that advice is woefully outdated and incorrect and if that is the advice from the midwife re feeding, then i wouldn;t take any more advice from her !!

3 hours between feeds is an eternity for a newborn

please tell your daguther to feed responsively, and learn her baby's cues and not try to stretch feeds out to 3 hours at this age

feeding hourly or 2 hourly as a newborn is absolutely normal

stimulating the breast frequently is what helps get breastfeeding established

3 - 4 hours between feeds whether breast or bottle fed is too long between feeds, for a newborn, espexially when the baby is distressed ...

organiccarrotcake · 15/02/2011 20:19

Absolutely agree. This baby needs to be on the breast at every opportunity - whether she sucks or not. She may be too stressed to feed well if she's crying.

I would recommend lots of skin to skin, lots of just sitting in bed/on the sofa (her DP can be supportive by bringing drinks and snacks) and just letting baby go to the breast absolutely whenever she wants to. Sucking fingers, changes in her expressions, mouthing or rooting, fussing generally are all cues that mean that she's wanting to suckle and are the time to offer the breast - not when she's crying.

Expressing isn't going to keep up her supply, and is just going to be stressful.

schmee · 15/02/2011 20:27

It might be the brand of formula not suiting the baby. She might want to try another brand if she wants to continue to include formula as part of feeding.

Three hours could be often enough IME, or not, depending on the baby.

Good advice about lots of skin to skin - this could be helpful even if she is going to continue to express. She should also be aware that it can be quite hard to maintain supply if just expressing so she might want to give breast feeding a go again if she wants breastmilk to be the main source of feeds.

TittyBojangles · 15/02/2011 20:29

My DS was feeding every hour at the most at that age! All babies are different of course, but your daughter would be better feeding according to her DS's cues rather than the clock, it may not help with the crying, but it will ensure a good supply is established. The formula top ups will be effecting her supply.

Also worth remembering that bf is not only about feeding, perhaps the closeness and comfort may help with the unsettled behaviour even if it isn't for hunger

It would be a good idea to contact one of the helplines to try and get some help asap with latching etc if she does want to continue with bf. It must be adding an awful lot of stress having to pump, sterilise and make up feeds as well as dealing with her little one.

Congrats on your grandson!

organiccarrotcake · 15/02/2011 20:31

I've got to ask, why is the MW not helping to get the baby latched well? I would suggest biological nurturing to get the latching going on properly (www.biologicalnurturing.com/) and just loads of skin to skin time. Are the poos greeny?

Original poster

lucyjack · 15/02/2011 23:04

Thanks everyone. No the midwife isn't trying to change the way baby's latching on...just saying he's not doing it properly.

He does get loads of skin to skin time and the poos are not greeny, just watery.

I'll mention the biological nurturing to her...anything that will help.

OP posts:

MoonUnitAlpha · 15/02/2011 23:08

What do you mean by watery? Breastfed poo is often very liquid.

Sounds like the midwife doesn't know much about breastfeeding, most don't have much training apparently. Maybe your daughter could do with seeing a breastfeeding counsellor to help with the latch?

The NCT breastfeeding helpline is 0300 330 0771 - they should be able to advise or put her in touch with a local counsellor.

MoonUnitAlpha · 15/02/2011 23:10

Oh and my ds didn't manage to go three hours between feeds til he was weaned onto solids.

ecobatty · 15/02/2011 23:14

That MW sounds hopeless! Please get her to contact a proper bf counsellor asap - someone who has a clue about bf as this mw clearly does not

organiccarrotcake · 15/02/2011 23:20

Yes, the MW is hopeless. She needs to urgently see a BFing counsellor (this is free) who will be able to really help, I promise. I would very strongly recommend phoning the NCT helpline in the morning and see if you can arrange a visit from your local NCT counsellor. You can also find your nearest branch here: www.nct.org.uk/in-your-area/branch-finder and contact them directly, although they're staffed by volunteers who may not get back to you quickly (or at all, sometimes, through no fault of theirs) but it's another route to go down.

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