11 wks - feeding gone to pot - bit disheartened

[kiwilizzie]

Hi All

DD2 is 11 weeks tomorrow and the past 3-4 days have been a bit sheise, to be honest.

Had a reasonably normal first 6 weeks gettig feeding established and overcoming the normal difficulties. Got really confident and really started to enjoy BF (only made it to 7 weeks with DD1) but it all seems to have gone a bit pete tong.

I wonder if it is a growth spurt but would this be likely at 10+6? I feel confused because I don't know if/when she is hungry or if she is stuffed full and over-tired or is it maybe wind?!!!

The reason I feel confused is because she is pulling off the breast a lot and screaming. I don't know if this is because she can't get enough milk down / fast enough or if I am trying to feed her and she is stuffed full and that is why she is pulling off and screaming. Because these are opposite possibilities, I feel like I am going round in unsuccessful circles!

She previously seemed to love BF and I was really proud of how well we had 'clicked' but now it feels like how it did with DD1 - something I am dreading!

I am not in danger of giving up but I am wondering if there is something I might be missing or if maybe this is a growth spurt and the feeding will return to the lovely days of the last month or more?

She has never been a daytime napper of any substance. She does a brilliant stint in the morning from about 630/730am - 1030am ish. She also sleeps from 11pm - 6/7am ish so don't get me wrong, I know I am BLOODY lucky to get the sleep to make the days managable.

I have a lot of people around me whose babies feed/play then nap in the day for an hour and a half or more. DD2 just never wants to nap in the cot and she mostly catnaps either in comfy bouncy chair thingy or in carseat when out and about. Is pretty scratchy between feeds when awake so think is getting tired but fights daytime sleep (also, seems to be getting plenty all in one big chunk overnight and first thing in morning)

Bit rambling, I am afraid, but any ideas or similar stories would be welcomed if only to help me feel a little less disheartened. Think am carrying anxiety from DD1's very unsuccessful EBF period of 7 weeks where she screamed pretty much every feed and I was a shell of a person, all over the place etc etc. I really want to conquer it this time and so feel quite easily derailed as I am sure this is normal stuff.

Thanks in advance.

Should probably add that the night-time sleeping and morning naps have not been affected during this recent period of unsettled feeding. The evenings have been fussy but they always have been so I don't know any different. If it was a growth spurt, wouldn't she be waking in night to feed too?

Also, my breasts feel really loose and empty at night and that's when the feeding has become the most difficult (evening feeds). I am trying to drink heaps of water. Anything else I can do - is my supply being affected by the growth spurt OR could I have a dwindling supply because of other factors, thereby causing her crankiness because there isn't as much milk as she would like / is used to?

(goes off to chug water)

When I BF my dd she went through growth spurts where she was starving, couldn't get enough milk, and would suck and if milk didn't come RIGHT NOW she would get absolutely furious (as much as a tiny baby can!) - you know, screaming and fists and red screwed up face. Then suck and scream again. She wanted milk NOW.

I ended up expressing some and giving her a bit in a bottle to take the edge off.

Poor you. I hope everything goes back to 'normal' for you soon.

Agh sorry - one more (last) thing is that she seems to be having trouble getting attached in the first place, too, when this hasn't been a problem since about 4 weeks of age. It is worse when my breasts are like described above (in evenings) but still difficult in day, all of a sudden too. What is going on here, I wonder?

(will perhaps give someone else other than me a chance to respond now!!)

Are you offering both breasts at each feed? How often is she feeding?

I don't think it's necessary to force yourself to drink loads of water by the way, just drink when you're thirsty!

If she's not sleeping much in the day, maybe she's getting overtired and frantic by the evening. At this age they often can't go more than 1.5-2 hours in the day without a sleep (lots of babies only manage an hour). I think my ds was sleeping about 14-15 hours a day at this stage.

It could, possibly, be the position you have her in (the soft boob bit isn't an issue imo). She might be uncomfortable. Are you trapping her arm at all? Is she too low down on your body? Turned away from you slightly? Make sure her tummy is towards yours, head towards the breast.

I preferred to sit upright to bf, couldn't manage it slouched into a chair.

Can you get to a bf clinic so someone can observe latch and position irl?

I have found that DD gets very fussy and cluster feeds more if she doesn't nap. She fights sleep too so a lot of naps are after feeding to sleep in bed or are in the car.

My DD did this about this age and it was because she was teething. It's sore to suck so they latch on then come off again screaming and cross because of the pain. I didn't know what had gone wrong and was really upset at the time. Can you feel any little bumps on her gums? Teething gels/calpol got us through this stage I think.

am exactly in the same place. what works for me sometimes, is giving ds a dummy for a few minutes, lulls him off and then he sucks better.
it's not a supply problem always, as i can see milk dripping from his screaming mouth sometimes. other times i think letdown isn't fast enough for him. maybe a variety of reasons.
also sudden at 13 weeks. also find he's doing better lying down in bed.

ds1 was ebf for 6 mnths and had the same for a week or so now and then.

will pass, i hope...

stuffy nose sometimes too.

my ds also did this at this age - he has stopped now but i think he was over tired and hungry and so vicious circle - he would scream when i tried to latch on and then fall asleep but then wake up and cry because he was hungry and it would go on and on. When he did feed he would feed for ages and get cross when the milk stopped coming fast - have you got any expressed milk you could top him up with? - this helped me - hopefully its just the growth spurt where they just dont settle then you get the vicious circle of tired hungry etc! hope it sorts out

Boo - just wrote massive post and lost it because of connection.

Wanted to say thanks for the ideas; many I hadn't considered (teething?!! aggh good point though or tried. Thanks heaps.

Moonunit - I thought there was a strong connection between fluids and supply? My plunket nurse is always going on about it. I am interested in your comment - do you think this is a myth? I am super-conscious of it because I thought that I had noticed on days when I 'forgot' to consciously drink plenty of water, I felt emptier in the evening. Would be interested in your thoughts.

Also good to hear advice and information about positioning etc. Am being really careful about this as she is detaching if I even move an inch; feel like a bloody statue!

Definitely think she is in vicious hungry/over-tired cycle too so guess as long as I can think of it like that, then the cause (whatever it is) isn't necessarily as relevant as long as I keep trying my best to meet all her needs and maybe it will become apparent soon (or more likely it never will!)

Hopefully can report some positive progress some time soon!

I do these mini posts because keep thinking am going to need to see to baby...then she is ok so think of more to add...

She feeds about every 3 hours in the day; about every 1.5-2 hours or less sometimes in evening (often feels like it is constant in the evening) but recently, it is less than every 3 hours.

We do use a dummy and that has been a massive help to my stress levels as she was constantly on the boob before that and my DD1 and I were both grumpy and stressed out all the time. I find it useful to use as a gauge.

I sit up in a chair to feed since irritating a nerve in my back when she was about 7 weeks old. I find it better for my back this way. Am holding her nice and close in and up on a pillow supported, tumm to tumm.

Might go to the BF clinic on Thurs if things aren't any better too. Thanks for reminding me there is practical real-life help out there too :)

I could have written your post about 10 days ago (DD is now 12 weeks) and I put it down to a growth spurt, as she had done the same at about 5 weeks and it just resolved itself. Same has happened again, although took her longer this time to get over it.

Nothing much to add in terms of advice, apart from that I read somewhere that growth spurts can affect some babies more in the day and others more in the night, ad others both, so night sleep/feeds may not be affected. HTH

Thanks - love the name too!

A few smiles have crept back in today & feeding is slowly improving on the last few days. Fingers crossed. Still terribly unsettled in the day but DD1 at nursery tomorrow so a whole day to focus on DD2 & try get her down for a proper nap...here's hoping...

kiwilizzie - I think there's a lot of old (mid)wives tales about what you eat and drink, with people being told things like they have to drink a pint of water and eat a fatty snack with every feed to improve the quantity/quality of their breastmilk. Actually we should just trust our bodies and eat when we're hungry and drink when we're thirsty! Unless you're actually malnourished or dehydrated it won't make a difference.

Will your dd feed to sleep still? I'd try feeding her more often, every 2 hours maybe, and then getting her to have a nap after each feed if possible.

Another vote for the overtiredness theory. MUA's advice is very sensible. DS wouldn't feed at all when overtired: he just screamed. Sometimes jiggling him to calmness worked. Sometimes giving him a finger to suck first worked. Sometimes nothing but a nap in the sling would work. Forget putting her down in the cot, do whatever it takes to get decent naps and hopefully you should see some improvement.

And 3 hours is a reasonable while to go between feeds for a baby that age, so I'd offer more often too.

Kellymom has info on how diet / fluid affects your milk (or otherwise) - basically you should just eat to hunger and drink to thirst as MUA says.

Thanks heaps, guys. Have got a more cozy padded baby chair now & it lays back so while DD1 at nursery, will try get her napping in there. Trouble is that DD1 just can't resist stroking her or touching her or (if tantrummy) waking her up so cot is my only hope of uninterrupted naps for her...that's why I'm keen to get her sleeping in there in the day, if poss....

She feeds to sleep at night but in day, jolts awake if try to put her down straight from feeding. Have been trying to aim for the feed-play-sleep thing. Maybe I'll try feed to sleep in day again in case it works...

I'm thinking tiredness is the key (although perhaps combined with a growth spurt making it seem a lot worse). She wakes up in such a good mood after her nap that follows the night (7-10 ish) and then it's downhill all day & evening so I am carrying her a lot. Happy to do this but I'm so tired & back gets so sore!

I'm not saying I've got it bad at all cf a lot of folk but she just seems so miserable from 11am-11pm & I would love to see her happier. She fights the sleep so can work on that & more feeds too to see if that helps any.

It just few so confused & confusing sometimes - and this is 2nd time round!!!!