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Infant feeding

Get advice and support with infant feeding from other users here.

Help feel like giving up

36 replies

domesticungoddess · 02/02/2011 19:45

My 4 month old DD is EBF. For the 1st two months she breast fed every 1-2hrs in the day, cluster fed in the evening then fed 2-3hrly at night. Since she was 8 weeks old she has become increasingly difficult to BF- screams prior to latching on and refusing the breast. This past few weeks she is only feeding at 9, 12, 3, 6 and at night usually 12 and 6ish (although last two nights 12, 3, 5). She goes to bed at 7.30ish and gets up at 7.30am. She refuses feeds when she gets up. She is not a very happy baby, she does play and is developing normally but cries a lot-well screams uncontrollably a lot.

She was born on the 50th centile-dropped immediatelt to the 20-25th and this week dropped to the 9th. She looks ok-small but well covered. She puts on 3-4 onz a week. She is very alert and poo's 1-2 x a day (yellow) and has lots of wet nappies.

The hv says we will have to be refered to the hospital and probably wean early or start formula if it doesn't get better.

Its really getting me down. I'm really upset with it all and worried. Any help greatfully accepted.

OP posts:
TittyBojangles · 02/02/2011 20:04

I'm afraid I cant advise on this, I am sure someone more qualified will be along shortly to help as it does sound complicated.

Does the HV have any advice? Have you seen the GP? Has the referral to the hospital been made? Are you having her weighed weekly? Sorry, lots of questions.

I can understand why you feel so down about it and just wanted to say I am feeling for you and keeping my fingers crossed you can get some good help too. Sorry I can't be more help. Didnt want your post to go unanswered.

domesticungoddess · 02/02/2011 20:17

Go to a baby massage group run by the HV and she weighs all the babies who go weekly ( which I do think is too often but its what she does with everyone). No referral made yet.

I really want to keep BF.

I'm only 5ft 5 and my DH is only 5ft 6inc so she is never going to be a big one. He is small but well covered.

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TittyBojangles · 02/02/2011 20:26

I'm a bit confused then, do they think there is a problem with your DD's weight or not then? Did they say what would trigger the referral? Or make any suggestions on how to improve whatever they are worried about? And even the red book says only 4 weekly weigh ins for bf babies, unless they are weighing her more often cos they are worried?? It sounds very confusing which is probably making you more confused too?? Could you speak to the HV and ask her to be specific on what she is worred about and why? Or go to your GP?

It is great that you want to keep bf, and I have no doubt that that determination will enable you to. There are many ways of solving weight probs (if indeed this is one!) and I know someone... Tiktok??? Will be along soon to advise. Keep your chin up Smile

japhrimel · 02/02/2011 20:35

Get the referral. Imo that should be before formula is suggested - if she's having weight issues because of a food related health issue, like intolerances or reflux, formula could make her worse, not better.

If top-ups are needed, you could express the milk.

gaelicsheep · 02/02/2011 20:36

Hmm. I am not qualified to answer this either, but I wouldn't have thought the more spaced out feeds are a problem particularly. She's still feeding every 3 hours in the day and twice in the night - 6 feeds is within the normal range. She may simply not be hungry for a feed at 7.30am if she's already fed at 6 - my DD, although older, is just the same in that respect.

I think, but as I say I'm not an expert so don't quote me on this, that it is common for babies to drop down to their real centile shortly after birth So actually your DD's dropped one not two centiles - I think it's two that rings alarm bells? She's putting on weight which is good.

WRT to the crying, my DD - again - is exactly the same. You don't say what triggers her crying. Does she still cry when being held or is it when you put her down? You say she screams when you latch her on now. I'm wondering about silent reflux, which sometimes doesn't manifest until around your DD's age. Did your HV mention that at all?

domesticungoddess · 02/02/2011 20:50

HV said she was worried as she as dropped two centiles. Although she doesn't look skinny.

She crys a lot and not really at any time. She wont nap any where other than in the baby carrier when I go for a walk so walk her twice a day or she has a melt down. She likes to be held and entertained but will also scream for no obvious reason.

I try and latch her on reguarly and she will cry/scream straight away. Sometimes she will settle then latch sometimes not. She feeds well at night. If she falls off the boob she screams. I think she may have a temper. I have given her to my dh when she is like this to see if its me but she will continue to scream then as soon as she is handed back she latches on and will feed fine (not all the time though she likes to keep me on my toes). When she is all het up when she latches on she swallows loads of air and screams more. I'm confused.

HV didn't memtion reflux. She just mentioned hospital if she drops further and that I may have to express or use formula.

I have been to my local BF support group-the lady there just said she looked well and my latch was ok. I phoned the Letcha league phone line they said 7onz in two weeks was ok. I'm so confused.

Is how she feeds ok.

She will feed each time for anything from 5 min to 45 min.

ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh

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gaelicsheep · 02/02/2011 20:59

Well it says this in my red book:
"Weight gain in the early days varies a lot from baby to baby so there are no lines on the chart for 0-2 weeks. By 2 weeks of age most babies weight will be on a centile close to their birth centile".

I take this to mean that it is the centile they settle on as they regain their birth weight that matters long term, not the birth weight itself so much. Has your DD consistently been around the 25th centile since around 2 weeks, until just recently?

TittyBojangles · 02/02/2011 21:00

So your HV said she would only be worried if she dropped further? Then presuming she continues to gain as she has been doing there is nothing to worry about... plus formula wouldnt necessarily need to be the first port of call anyway, jsut figuring a way to get more bm into her. But if the weighing wasn't done so often then would anyone even think there was a problem IYSWIM?

Although obviously the crying at the breast etc is stressful and worrying for you, and possibly completely seperate from any weight issues (which she might not have anyway).

Do you have a sling? would that help you keep her close and settled? If you are worried about the crying then could you see your GP? Perhaps they could rule out something like reflux which may cause this behaviour?

My DS was often like this, screaming into the breast and seeming like he wanted to feed but screaming every few swallows then sometimes settling after being taken off the breast and sometimes not. We are now on infant Gaviscon which really seems to help, we only have mad screaming sessions now if he is over tired or we have been out and about and unable to give the Gaviscon. This may be nothing to do with whatever is troubling your DD, I just wanted you to have some hope that things CAN get better. Grin

domesticungoddess · 02/02/2011 21:07

TittyBojangles- I will see my gp good idea. Your ds does sound similar. I will ask re reflux.

Has been slowly going down from the 25th since two weeks after birth.

How can I get more breast milk into her-should I wake her more at night.

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TittyBojangles · 02/02/2011 21:21

I would probably wait and see if you need to be worried about her weight first before you start disturbing her night sleeping (could you ring one of the bf helplines tomorrow and talk it through with them?)

If you havent used it already there is some great advice on here about fussing at the breast and here about weight gain.

I think seeing your GP and discussing your concerns about the crying is a good idea. And you can ask them about whether they are concerned about the weight too. It may well be that the weekly weigh-ins have just picked up a normal fluctuation.

TittyBojangles · 03/02/2011 09:45

How are things this morning DU?

tiktok · 03/02/2011 10:13

Difficult, and worrying....and hard to help over the web.

You are already in touch with the HV and you have made contact with other sources of help, too, and I can understand this makes it frustrating that nothing seems to improve.

I don't know if there is an issue with weight or not - plenty of perfectly healthy babies have this weight gain pattern. So no one can deduce anything from it. OTOH, 6 feeds in 24 hours is not very many, and the fighting and screaming and refusal is something to consider.

To be honest, the 'not very happy' description is just as concerning. Crying and screaming happen to all babies some of the time, but not 'a lot' at four months. And you are upset and worried.

Is there anyone you have seen or talked to so far who could get a handle on this? It needs to be someone who knows about breastfeeding, and someone who will not automatically think the answer is weaning or formula. It may be that making bf more effective will help - impossible to tell.

A good HV would be a starting point, at least. Maybe the one you are seeing would agree to talk more 'holistically' about the situation?

TittyBojangles · 03/02/2011 13:20

How are your doing DU? I hope things are ok with you and DD. Take Tiktoks advice, she is an expert Smile Do you have someone you can speak to in RL?

domesticungoddess · 03/02/2011 19:44

Hi and thank you.

She fed the same today-refused the breast when she got up, then fed at 10, 2, 4 and 6. I tried when she first got up in a few positions and did get a little bit in her while she was on her back with me above-not the most delicate of positions. I gave her calpol and used bonjela but to no effect. I got my HV to visit me at home (it is a different one I see at baby massage). She says I just have a grumpy baby with a temper. Is that possible. She is alert and developing ok but just cries a lot. She does scream as if she is in pain but I haven't identified a cause. The HV is seeing us again on tue. She has a bit of a runny nose at present but she's had that on and off for a while now. She has a persistant cough. She is not a sicky baby but is very windy-from both ends especiallly when she is het up. I keep getting my latch checked and everyone says its ok. All this only started at about 8 weeks. And has got worse.

She is teething would that account for all this.

When she feeds at night there are no problems-no crying feeds well.

She doesn't look skinny just not very big but with enough covering.

I'm seeing her gp tomorrow.

Where else could I go for help ?

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japhrimel · 03/02/2011 20:01

Wow, can't believe a HV's solution to an unhappy baby is that baby is "grumpy"!

I'd see the GP and if they're stumped ask for a paed referral. Might also be worth asking if you could get referred to an infant feeding specialist. I happened to see one MW who was also an infant feeding specialist and she was amazing but we never got to see her again.

TittyBojangles · 03/02/2011 21:00

Have you been using teething gel immediately before she feeds? I have seen ppl on here suggest that for teething (no experience with teeth yet myself thank god Smile).

And agree with Japhrimel, if they cannot suggest a solution then ask for a referral. Better to kick up a fuss and it be nothing than always wish you'd pushed for a bit more help.

We also have a midwife who is a feeding specialist who is great, perhaps see if there is someone like that near you?

I really hope you get this sorted out soon.

TittyBojangles · 03/02/2011 21:01

Oh, and meant to say Japhrimel, you are Shock at some rubbish HV advice?? Shock Grin

gaelicsheep · 03/02/2011 22:30

Sorry, I just realised my comment about silent reflux was misleading. What I meant to say is that it often manifests at around the 8 weeks mark, when your troubles started (not your DD's current age)- sorry about that.

You mention a runny nose and a persistent cough. The DC of a friend of mine had similar symptoms to those, and screamed loads, and it turns out he has some kind of dairy intolerance. Might be worth asking someone about the possibility?

domesticungoddess · 04/02/2011 09:26

I did think about the possibility of a dairy intolerance-think I will try and cut out dairy from my diet. Will be good for me I eat way too much cheese.

Off to the gp at 10.30.

Today started as usual feed at 7am happy baby for 10 minutes then screaming most of the morning so far.

Its really hard work and upsetting.

OP posts:
TittyBojangles · 04/02/2011 10:35

Fingers crossed for some help from the GP for you. Smile

domesticungoddess · 04/02/2011 21:01

He was only a baby and didn't even examin her. He gave me gaviscon px but none in stock so will get it monday when they order it in.

She fed 5 and a bit times in the day today (the bit was a 5 minute feed but a full breast but someone knocked on the door and distracted her) so she should get 7-8 feeds this 24 hrs which is an improvement. Still screaming if she if offered the breast and doesn't want it and if I am too slow getting the breast out/she falls off etc she will have a scream about it. If she is hungry she seems to feed fine-this would make it about 3hrly during the day-is that ok for a 4 month old.

The gp also said to start to ween her or bottle feed her. Neither I want to do. I love BF her and want to continue.

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kalo12 · 04/02/2011 21:08

sounds v similar to my ds. he was on 50th good gainer dropped to 25th, then 9th and then 2nd where he stayed till he was one.- i stopped weighing him then. when i tried solids at 6 months discovered he was dairy intolerant so i cut it out of my diet and bf'd till 22 months. i replace milk with oatly the red one with added calcium - from health food shops but cheapest at asda.

my ds was a real diffficult feeder and as consequence poor sleeeper.

he is 3 now, still has oat milk but eats things with milk in, yoghurt etc

kalo12 · 04/02/2011 21:10

wanted to add that gps and hvs totally and utterly useless - just advised soya formula which is just as bad as milk for some.

what was amazing was a book called digestive wellness in children by elizabeth lipski

AngelDog · 04/02/2011 21:16

I wonder whether some of the crying (especially later in the day) is to do with overtiredness - babies that age usually need 3, sometimes 4 naps a day. If she's only having two, she'll be awake too long between them. My DS was the same - didn't nap well and was screaming by the evening. At that stage, he never wanted to feed when he was overtired.

Try to take her for a walk in the carrier after 1.5-2 hours of being awake, and hopefully she should be able to nap more often which hopefully will help a bit.

I don't think it's all of the problem as she's screaming in the morning too.

Albrecht · 04/02/2011 21:51

My ds is similar with screaming and needing entertaining etc. Hv and GP also useless. We found appt with paed very reassuring as she was very thorough and we felt we discussed every possible potential physical cause and conclusion is he may be simply a Fussy Baby (google Dr Sears)

Paed also did not mention formula or push us to wean early.

Ds is 7 mnths and bf very nicely now (except the pinching!) much happier since he can sit up.

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