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Infant feeding

Get advice and support with infant feeding from other users here.

Original poster

4 days old and hes lost 6.6% of birth weight. Very worried.

73 replies

Bekki · 07/09/2003 14:40

Ds2 was born alot lighter than his brother, almost 2lbs lighter. I know they are two different babies but I can't help but compare and it is very worrying. Since he was born on Thursday he has lost alot of weight and I can't do anything about it. He has barely opened his eyes for more than a few seconds at a time since his birth and I can't wake him for a feed. He sleeps all the time and when he does feed its just for a minute or two every 3-4 hours. I'm so engorged I'm having to express all the time. The midwife didn't seem concerned as I said that his nappies were brown/yellow and loose. But hes so tiny I can't help but worry about it. Anyone else experience this?

OP posts:
Original poster
Bekki · 14/09/2003 15:48

Just a quick update - Alexander has been weighed today and has regained his birth weight exactly. Breast feeding is going really well now. Expressing made a big difference in the first week and I can't believe that it is this easy! I'm so glad I decided to try breast feeding again but now I'm trying to decide how long I should feed for. I never concidered the possibility that we would get this far.
He is still very sleepy but no longer has to be woken for his feeds. Everything is going wonderfully. Thanks for everyones help.

OP posts:
Karen99 · 14/09/2003 17:32

Great news Bekki!

Demented · 14/09/2003 22:53

Fab news Bekki!

Demented · 14/09/2003 22:55

Fab news Bekki!

Bron · 15/09/2003 13:34

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

princesspeahead · 17/09/2003 08:43

Well my turn now! Miles was weighed yesterday and is a pound lighter than his birthweight (7lb8 instead of 8lb 8.5) He hasn't been pooing much either, (only every couple of days sometimes) and what he is pooing is sort of dark greenish brown and not yellow. He is very alert, contented, settles very quickly after a feed, and only wants to feed every 4 hours or so on average. Tried to wake him up early to feed but he never feeds very well when you do, a man of habit I think. So now trying to keep him feeding on each breast for longer - up to 25 minutes instead of the 15 or so he would do if left alone - which has just given me sore nipples.
Any suggestions? This is my third attempt to breastfeed a child, the other two attempts ended in failure (but for different reasons I guess) - maybe I'm just not cut out for it. Bit depressed.

princesspeahead · 17/09/2003 08:48

ps he is 9 days old...

codswallop · 17/09/2003 09:20

calling mears.....

codswallop · 17/09/2003 09:28

remmeber I think 10 days is whn most give up so see if you can make it to 11!!

pupuce · 17/09/2003 10:01

Princess - several things I would like to ask/say to your question...

  1. whether 15 or 25 minutes - it shoud not hurt after 25 minutes if it doesn't hurt after 15 !

  2. As you realise every 4 hour is TOO long a gap ! is he that sleepy ? Do you thik you could be not having enough milk ? If that is the problem... you need to put baby at breast (increase skin to skin) more often and if that really doesn't do the trick you could get domperidone (which would increase your milk supply).

  3. The fact that he is now pooing much is a concern about his milk intake... read this from Dr Jack Newman (an expert in BF)
    "Usually by the fifth day, the bowel movements have taken on the appearance of the normal breastmilk stool. The normal breastmilk stool is pasty to watery, mustard coloured, and usually has little odour. However, bowel movements may vary considerably from this description. They may be green or orange, may contain curds or mucus, or may resemble shaving lotion in consistency (from air bubbles). The variation in colour does not mean something is wrong. A baby who is breastfeeding only, and is starting to have bowel movements which are becoming lighter by day 3 of life, is doing well.
    Without your becoming obsessive about it, monitoring the frequency and quantity of bowel motions is one of the best ways of knowing if the baby is getting enough milk. After the first 3-4 days, the baby should have increasing bowel movements so that by the end of the first week he should be passing at least 2-3 substantial yellow stools each day. In addition, many infants have a stained diaper with almost each feeding. A baby who is still passing meconium on the fifth day should be seen at the clinic the same day. A baby who is passing only brown bowel movements is probably not getting enough, but this is not yet definite.
    Some breastfed babies, after the first 3-4 weeks of life, may suddenly change their stool pattern from many each day, to one every 3 days or even less. Some babies have gone as long as 15 days or more without a bowel movement. As long as the baby is otherwise well, and the stool is the usual pasty or soft, yellow movement, this is not constipation and is of no concern. No treatment is necessary or desirable, because no treatment is necessary or desirable for something that is normal.
    Any baby between 5 and 21 days of age who does not pass at least one substantial bowel movement within a 24 hour period should be seen at the breastfeeding clinic the same day. Generally, small infrequent bowel movements during this time period means insufficient intake. There are definite exceptions and everything may be fine, but it is better to check."

  4. Are there no BF clinic or counsellor in your area ? They should check your latch and HOW he is drinking ! I do think from the sounds of it there is room for improvement... you can STILL do it but get the right support ! I know mumsnet is great for moral support but get some practical/physical advice from someone who can see what you are doing.... hang in there....

SoupDragon · 17/09/2003 10:30

PPH, DS1 lost loads of weight after birth and didn't regain his birthweight until about 17 days old. This was entirely due to the fact I had no idea how to breastfeed him (tried to phone a counsellor but couldn't get hold of one when I needed her!) I eventually got it sorted and he literally piled on the weight at a huge rate. He was also a baby who didn't have mustardy poos for over a week after birth.

Hang in there - you can do it! You've got the bf help line no so give them a call!!

tiktok · 17/09/2003 12:18

Princess, agree with your concern and the tips given here. Bf is not going well at the moment, and you are doing the right thing in addressing this. The lack of poos, their colour and the fact he is only feeding four hourly plus your sore nipples are all signs he isn't feeding effectively - but you can change this. Someone who knows what they are looking for should watch you feed from beginning to end - and soon.

Also your baby will feed more often if you hold him skin to skin as much as you can - sleeping in a crib or cot can mean you miss little signs he would feed, and he may go back to sleep. Close to you, he will be stimulated by your smell and taste and voice, and be more eager to feed.

You can turn this around, and Miles will start to feed more often, and you will make lots and lots of milk in response

princesspeahead · 17/09/2003 13:13

Well he has just done a huge poo and it is changing colour - still dark but definately brown and not green. That makes two big ones today.
He does feed OK I think - he chomps away and you can hear the milk glugging down for the first 7 - 10 mins. Then he seems to have a fallow period of about 5 minutes or so where nothing seems to come out, and then he chomps again, but much more slowly, but with more glugging. Is this normal? Is the 5 minutes of not much the bit between the foremilk and the hindmilk coming in?
His latch seems to be good and the positioning is fine for the first bit but he does move around a bit and sometimes I lose the position towards the end of the feed and can't quite regain it - through tiredness I suppose. That's when it gets sore. But if I take him off to reposition him he won't latch on again, just purses his lips and looks at me as though I'm mad.
I'm feeding one side, burping and then doing the other. Any thoughts?

pupuce · 17/09/2003 13:23

make sure you "empty" (you never empty really) the first side before giving next and at next feed START with the side you finished on.
There is no hindmilk/foremilk cut off point... some feeds have more foremilk than others... I think baby is simply having a bit of a break.
Is he very windy ?
I would still unlatch him if it's painful because - if he isn't latched on well not only does he hurt you but also he is not feeding well... i.e. doesn't get the milk out well, may take too much air, etc - no one benefits ! If you unlatch him and he won't take it again then he isn't hungry anymore.

Otherwise it sounds better.... DO FEED HIM more often ! Certainly daytime... I don't know what Tiktok will say she has more years of experience then me

tiktok · 17/09/2003 13:32

Sounds better, PPH.....watch out for those changing poos!! Agree with pupuce about milk there's no big change/cut off point....the milk gets fattier as it is removed, that's all. Also agree about letting the baby decide when he has finished first side, not looking at the clock which is a poor guide

princesspeahead · 17/09/2003 14:57

thanks very much for this pupuce and tiktok - he has just had another feed which went well (about 2.5 hrs after the last one) so I'm trying to feed more often. I'm being good and having a day in bed with him, just eating, sleeping and feeding so I hope that will help things. and trying to stay positive following a major crisis of confidence last night and this morning.
Still think breastfeeding should be easier than this - major design flaw in humans I think....!

Karen99 · 17/09/2003 15:01

Princess, my ds took 4wks to get fully established on bf-ing and we really couldn't do it in the full dark until about 6wks.

Hang in there, it does get easier. Great news about the poos!

SoupDragon · 17/09/2003 15:53

Excellent!

pupuce · 17/09/2003 16:58

Excellent news Princess.... good to hear that you took it easy and spent all your day for you and baby,.... that's the way to do it. Hang in there you're doing great !
And come back here if you have another bad night !

codswallop · 17/09/2003 19:26

Hooray for pph and Mumsnet. keep Lansinoh - ing too.

LOl at us all cheering Miles' poos!

sunchowder · 17/09/2003 22:52

Just read this thread princess peawhat a wonderful group of friends you do have! I hope that things are going better, they seem to be. I can't offer any good advice as I was unsuccessful (not a drop came out of either breast I was so uptight). Sleeping with Miles will get both of you in touch and more synchronized with his needs, he is used to being with you constantly and so used to all of the movements and your voiceit is such a transition time to be born into the world. I send you my good thoughts for tremendous amounts of energy in the days ahead so that you can feel relaxed and able to get enough things completed and take care of Miles at the same time. Be well and sleep well Pea!

mears · 18/09/2003 09:41

Agree with everyone here princesspeahead - can I call you PPH? Once Miles learns to feed effectively you breasts will be stimulated more effectively and your milk production will go up. Always reposition him if you feel he is no longer positioned properly. Don't worry if he refuses to go back on immediately - he isn't gaining anything by chomping away and damaging your nipple anyway. He may be more receptive an hour later. You are doing the right thing by keeping him near to you. Keep going - you CAN do it.

princesspeahead · 18/09/2003 12:46

Well it isn't going well, it is going terribly. He has dropped another 3oz and is 7lbs 5 (after a full feed), his poos have turned back to dark green again and I don't think he is thriving. I've been staying in bed, drinking masses of water, eating properly, latching on well, emptying the breasts, and I'm just not making enough milk. If I feed him less than 3 - 3.5 hrs after the last feed, my breasts are still empty. I have help up to the eyebrows - don't have to lift a finger - so I really don't know what else I can do.
I've just given him a top up bottle of formula after the last full feed and he took 2 oz. Hardly a top up, more like a good half a feed.
Please don't anyone shout at me, I've been in tears all morning feeling like a complete failure but he is too skinny and the bf isn't working.

bossykate · 18/09/2003 12:48

hi pph

have you tried speaking to a bf counsellor? NCT or LaLeche league. hang on i find the number for you. i phoned one when i was having probs with ds - they are great.

back in a minute.

bossykate · 18/09/2003 12:54

here it is.

Breastfeeding Line: 0870 444 8708
8am to 10pm every day.

Do phone, as I'm sure you know, they are v. helpful and may possibly be able to send someone round to see you and miles in person.

i think there is a drug you can take to boost milk production too - domperidone (?) - i hope more knowledgeable mumsnetters might be able to give you more details.

Of course if you are really worried speak to your GP/HV.

good luck.