Expressing experts - is it really this hard/ time-consuming or am I making a meal of it?

[TCOB]

So I'm back at work 3 days a week, goig full-time in a few weeks. DD is being looked after by family/ DH whilst I work, and so far we get away with about 4-5 ounces expressed for her as I can feed her 9am, 12 noon and 5pm - but this is going to end when I go back FT and she is in nursery. Realistically, what should I expect/ aim for in terms of expressing? Will I be able to do 8ozs for her each day? How many times a week should I express? Is there a good time to do it? Am I being totally ridiculous to think I can do this or am I setting myself up for a fall? And will it always make my nipples feel really strange???

don't know but this might help :)

sorry how old is she? not sure the link is remotely helpful lol

Thanks, Ruby what a cool link - esp beautiful tiny baby being fed by tube [gulping emoticon]. I did try hand-expressing but hated the wired 'tickling' feeling.

I have exclusively expressed for the last 4 months now. I used to get around 10oz each expressing sesh, but since I've started to cut down, I find I get a lot less.
You pobably know all about supply and demand - the more you express, the more you get. I now get around 5oz per session, and that's around 4 times a day - he gets formula for other feeds, if needed. Just feels like a natural progression for me IYKWIM?

In order to get the 10-12oz per express I initially did it every 3 hours on the hour for about the first 6 weeks. It was hard work! I then dropped down to every 4 hours and then started to find it very challenging around xmas time, so just did it as I felt the need. Of course this meant supply dropped off slightly - and it really took a hit when my period came, as the hormones play havoc with supply (but had a well stocked freezer from previous months of toil!)

There are no miracle ways to get what you want - and the more you stress about it, the harder it's going to be.

Keep yourself properly hydrated - drink to thirst.
Relax when doing it - I find just sitting and watching tv while doing it makes time go faster and makes me stress less about what I get out.
Mornings tend to be more productive - first thing I get my highest yield.
Eat properly - this has a huge effect on supply.
Use an electric pump if possible - and if it's connected to the mains then I always find it has more 'oomph!'

And don't beat yourself up if it doesn't go the way you wanted - the milk gods are fickle!!

Hope this helps :)

Sorry X post - DD is nearly 7 months. WIsh I could make the and expressing work, I hate all the paraphenalia of sterilsing. Do I even need to do all that still?

I expressed using an Avent hand pump. I know it sounds silly, but I used to find I got alot more if I could forget I was doing it, IYSWIM.
I used to drape a muslin cloth over the boob and pump and just pump as I watched telly. Sometimes the bottle overflowed without me realising it was full!
Definately relax about it and do it as often as you can be bothered to increase supply!
Good luck

What pump do you use (assuming you are using one)? I was using an single Avent hand pump, but managed to borrow a Ameda Lactaline double, and what a revelation!

And how old is your baby?

My DS is 9 months now and I am also 3 days a week, but they're long days, going up to full time in March. I feed as much as DS wants overnight and express twice a day on the days I am at work, mid-morning and mid-afternoon. I typically get 8-10oz in the morning and about 6oz in the afternoon. This takes me about 10-15 minutes with the Ameda. I then divide it equally for 2 bottles for the next day I am working, and freeze anything I think will be surplus. I have provided nursery with some of my frozen stash so they can use that if they need more. I have explained to them that they don't have to throw it out if it isn't drunk within an hour.

I then feed before bed time and on demand when I am at home to boost supply as much as possible. I don't know easy it will be once I am full time, but I have an understanding boss, a good place to express at work, and I plan to move straight to cow's milk if it stops working.

litteducks - thank you. Can I just ask ask you how long it takes you to get 5ozs now? I'm currently using a hand pump but I don't think this is going to work long-term. You are so right about stress - that's why I'm seeking RL experience rather than getting totally het up about it!

Plastic - is the Amdea Lactaline an electric pump? I am seriously impressed by 10oz plus 8ozs, if I managed that much I would be sorted.

amstillsexy - I like the idea of covering up with a cloth - I will feed in front of anyone but feel a but strange about expressing and it would be better if I stop slinking off methings.

Oo, and I forgot to mention that I find that the position of the pump on the breast makes a huge difference. If I place the shield over the nipple and then slightly lift and push back into the breast it's like I 'tap in' to the supply better and get ribbons of milk rather than drops.
Also, stimulation of the breast just before helps the milk let down.
And while pumping if you kind of massage the breast with one hand, you can kind of feel the milk pockets and 'release' them a bit. This is how I tell if I have any milk left or if breasts are empty.

About 15 mins for 5oz now. It makes me a bit sad as I used to get double that in that amount of time :( But heyho, that's how these things go I suppose!

You could well manage 8ozs expressed a day, but if working full time as well it could be tricky. Also remember her needs may vary and her requirements increase beyond what you can express so you need to think how you would deal with that.

I expressed when back at work full time after having DD1, I would express every time I fed her as she only took one breast each feed and froze/chilled it. Then obviously fed her myself whenever I was with her. Even though I could get quite good volumes off I couldn't sustain expressing for more than about a month once working FT as her fluid requirements increased and I couldn't always express at work. I felt sad having to give her some formula but she had every feed with me from the breast and just had formula when I was working. She adapted fine to this.

With DD2 I expressed exclusively from her birth (she was tube fed and couldn't BF at all) and managed it for 9 months before having to top up with formula but it was a hell of a commitment and I pumped every 3 hours, every day. I wasn't working either!

Maybe give it a go, express as often as you're able and freeze it, and play it by ear. Don't beat yourself up if you can't express enough, you can always give her bm when you're with her.

Forgot to say, by the time DD1 was about 8-9 months she didn't always want milk when at her childminder - she would have water or diluted fruit juice and then feed like mad when I picked her up and in the evenings and mornings!

I have watched sooo much TV over the last 4 months. All of Frasier and Brothers and Sisters. I have started milking now just as an excuse to go and chill out for 15 mins and watch some good tv!

I second getting an Ameda Lactaline double pump. Less £ than a Medela but only £20 more than the recommended retail price of the crap Tommee Tippee single electric one I initially bought (thankfully the Tommee Tippee was half price but I still regret not getting decent pump in first place.)

Once you've got a double pump, make a "pumping top" by getting an onl, very tight vest top and cutting holes in it where your nipples are. Holes should be about the size of a £2 coin so you can slide pump onto each nipple. Top needs to be tight enough so pumps stay in place! Without a "pumping top" you'll be trapped holding two pump receptacles to your boobs. With a pumping top you can put your feet up with a cuppa and Mumsnet whilst pumping. Multi-tasking at its best!

I've found that pumping in morning before DD wakes is better as my breasts are engorged so get about 6oz out in less than 10 mins on a good day. I stop before they feel "empty" so I can feed DD when she wakes as she's usually ravenous first thing in the morning. When DD would actually settle to sleep properly before midnight, I used to pump at 10 / 11pm before I went to bed too. We're currently in sleep regression hell so I'm usually still feeding DD at that time now!

As others have said, the more you pump, the more you'll produce so if you try to get into a routine that suits you, your baby and your breasts before you return to full-time working away from home then you should be able to maintain BF.

Good luck.

littleducks - will order in some box sets to help ease the process .

Sidge - when DD1's fluid requirements went up when you went back was it for milk or water? i.e. do you think you could have got away with just BFs when you saw her, and her having water to get rid of her thirst when she was away from you?
I've no prob with FF (DS was FF for 6 months) but think DD is my last baby so really strangely enjoying the BFing

Right - feeling much saner now with all your advice - thank you ladies. Message loud and clear is to pump at least once in the morning and mid-afternoon (I should be able to do this at work) and get an electric pump (I'm going to check out the Ameda). Queen - that top sounds sexxxxy - my poor DH will be getting his hopes up when he sees that .

Funny, I never thought of pumping and supply-and-demand but obviously your boobs can't tell if it's a baby or a pump going to work on the!

Just read threelittleducks' post- yes, I found the position of the pump over the breast was really important- you need a really good 'seal'-almost like building up a vacuum as you pump.

I used to wet my boob with milk to help the pump stick better.

Also, a few short, quick pumps followed by a couple of long, slow ones seemed to get the milk really flowing out.

(sorry, just realised how that might sound taken out of context! )

I have a medela swing electric from eBay- it has a stimulation phase to get the milk flowing then a button you press to change the sucking to slow 'gulps' like a baby feeding. It's very good- I can get about5oz in ten minutes or so but sure I could do more if I used it more than once a day.

Well I had to go back to work when she was tiny (14 weeks) so couldn't keep up with her by the time she was about 5 months. I think with an older baby it would be easier to give some water initially, followed by milk if water doesn't satisfy. Certainly by the time she was 8-9 months, she would pretty much have mostly water and fill up on milk from me!

I had an electric pump on long term loan from the hospital and HV after having DD2, it was far better than a hand held pump. Get a double set as well so you can do both boobs simultaneously! I couldn't do hands free though as I needed quite a good seal but watched a LOT of TV!

The Ameda one has a control for the rate and strength, so you can start off fast and light to mimic baby until let down starts, then you can slow it down and increase the suction. Double pumping is much more efficient for stimulating supply and increasing pumping output.

I am a bit of a dairy cow . I had massive oversupply with DS1, and nearly as bad this time. I have about a weeks worth in the freezer at the moment. I just keep rotating it, and it means that if I have to go away for a night or two for work that I don't have to be panic pumping just before departure.

I haven't got a pumping top. My boobs are big enough that on the seat in the room I am provided with at work, I can just rest one on my thigh and I hold the other, whilst reading a journal or something so I can kid myself I am still working

Another vote for the LActaline double electric here. I made a bra top to hold them but actually I prefer to do them one at a time now as each breast have a different optimal rate/strength level. I just pop a wide neck bottle under the other to catch any drips before I switch sides. I think it's cos one nipple is severely inverted and the other boob is far more productive. If I had more evenly matched breasts I think it would be easier to do both at the same time. Also makes a massive difference when gently stroke/massage around the breast to ensure it's all 'emptied'.

I'd just like to add that if the OP is making a meal of expressing, she is not the only one.

I breastfeed my two DCs for about 10 and 9 months respectively. Not once, with either child, did I ever manage to express more than 2oz (it took over half an hour). Simply not enough to make a meaningful feed. In the end I would use the occasional carton of formula if I really had to be away for a while.

Do your best, but don't beat yourself up.

Another vote for trying out different pumps.

Expressing was slow with my Medela mini electric, then it broke. In desperation I turned to my Avent Isis (hand pump) and managed to get about 4 x the quantity out less time.

Don't the hand pumps tire your hands quickly? I use the medela mini electric, but had to take it back to the shop because it broke after a month, so am looking at alternatives.

fwiw i get about 5 oz out in 20mins.