Dd refusing to feed, think bf over for us

[MacMomo]

Seems like bf is finally over for us. After 4 weeks I thought we had it sorted as she was latching properly to one and I am building supply to the other. But for the last two days she has been latching and having half a feed or less, then pulling off crying. I have winded her, changed her, offered the other, tried biological nurturing, different positions, nipple shields. She roots and sucks at the nipple, sometimes latches for one suck, then quits screaming. To see if she was really still hungry, I offered a bottle if expressed milk and she polished it off in seconds. I was then able to express another 2 ounces from the breast, so it isn't empty.

Feeding is now a screaming battle to get a latch for longer than the first few minutes and I end up in tears. If she falls asleep after the half feed then we are inevitably back at it again an hour later, so it doesn't help her sleep.

Am I doomed to expressing forever? Why does she pull off a good latch and refuse to latch again when she's clearly hungry?

Hello - sorry to hear you are having a tough time. You are doing all the right things -the only other thing I could suggest is that maybe you have a very fast let down and its a bit overwhelming for your dd?

More info on this and how to help here www.kellymom.com/bf/supply/fast-letdown.html

Hope that helps

Have you had any RL help? I would get as much RL advice as you can, go to any local groups, etc. Also I've found the helplines really useful when I've called them in the past, so I'd really recommend talking to someone.

Have been to see excellent bf counsellor who sorted latch but can't go anywhere now as isolated and can't drive for another two weeks due to c-section. Dh now back at work.

Hi,

I had the same 'problem', thou I think my two were a few weeks older than your DD.

After trying to fight the screaming for a few feeds, I tried not fighting . When the babies get fussy, I sit the up in my lap to see if there is any wind. They generaly keep crying for 30 seconds or so, then either settle and burp, or keep screaming. If they keep screaming, I try a walk and a cuddle until thy're calm before I try the breast again.

I think what I'm trying to say is don't try to fight them onto the breast. If i8t isn't working, stop, distract and try again later.

Also, the fact that you DD took a large feed from a bottle is not really an indication of her hunger. I can't explain it very well, but it is something to do with a swallow action creating a vacuum that sucks the next mouthful into the babies mouth, which the baby has to swallow, which creates and endless cycle and the bottle goes down fast. There is more info here.

I hope things improve soon - tbh even if you don't do anything, they'll change soon enough anyway

MacMomo, sorry you are facing this.

It's not really possible to say what might be happening - could be any of these

overwhelming let down (agree with milkjetmum*

• ear infection (see HV or doc)
• tummy discomfort ( see HV or doc)
• mysterious baby 'thing' that will disappear of its own accord in a day or so
• change in pattern and need, which is perfectly normal - nothing wrong with this, and if she falls asleep sooner than you think she 'should' and wakes up an hour later, there is nothing wrong with that....it may change to something different in a few days :)

Don't 'test' your baby's hunger or milk availability by expressing and giving a bottle - it's misleading. Babies will suck on a bottle 'cos it's there :) Breasts never empty when breastfeeding is going well - if you had not expressed a drop, it wouldn't mean anything.

RL help would be a good idea.

Hi, I havebeen having similar problems with my DD. I have had 2 threads running about it so have linked ofr you in case any of the advice I have been given is useful.

I have concluded that in our case forceful letdown is the problem a lot of the time

good luck

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/breast_and_bottle_feeding/1133490-I-think-I-have-lost-the-battle-with-the-bottle

Thanks for the support, very much appreciated.

I dont think fast let down is the issue, as she refuses to latch or comes off quickly on the boob which has hardly any milk in (expressing from it is also a real effort), and she carries on pulling off when the good boob is getting empty.

She only latches well when it's the good boob and it's pretty hard/firm, so in the morning or early afternoon. She seems to hate soft boob/nipple. Maybe because she has slight posterior Tongue tie? The highly experienced bf counsellor said it wasn't worth snipping.

She knows how to latch, but won't. Sometimes she won't even try at all. If she won't open her mouth properly, how do you latch? Either poorly (in desperation - have sore nipples again as result) or you dont feed much, so she's awake hungry every hour.

Helpline was supportive but had no further ideas. Remote village and illegal to drive for another two weeks. I am trying to stay positive - at least I can express and bottle feed, but very disappointed.

can you get someone to come round to you. There is always the paid option if NCT don't do visits in your area.

have you looked up nursing strikes, there could be info there to help you

It's not illegal to drive post cs. I spoke to my insurance company who asked for letter off gp to say I was fit. Gp gave willingly 3 wks post cs SW scar had healed well and I was comfortable.

Can't get to gp! 25 mile round trip, no bus service, dh not allowed time off.

Am very happy to pay someone to come round and help, it's important enough to us, I'd rather do without a few luxuries. I will google it, but grateful for direction if anyone knows private bf counsellors in remote north Wales!

Meanwhile we managed half of the last 2 feeds at the breast, topped up with about an ounce of expressed milk each time. Lots of screaming and frustration from DD though, and mouth never properly wide. But she seems better with the very firm morning nipples/breast. Should I ask again about snipping the minor tongue tie the bf counsellor saw but said was not bad enough to snip? Maybe it is more of a problem than she thought.

DD produced the biggest yellow-green bogie I have ever seen this morning, so maybe she has a cold and this is the culprit? She has always been very blocked up sounding, snorting and snoring. Mw and hv said it was normal so I ignored it, but maybe she now has a cold. Though she's sleeping silently right now.

I should also mention, she has a very pronounced underbite (bottom jaw very short) which the bf lady commented on (she gets it from FIL). Perhaps latch will improve as her head grows? I have to have faith this will get better somehow.

One day at a time. It's the evenings and night feeds that are impossible, it seems.