Very urgent help needed - nb in intensive care

[zgaze]

My sister had her son Saturday morning, v long back to back labour ending in ventouse, but all seemed well and they were discharged and went home Sunday. The baby was very sleepy and did not feed much - would sit with the nipple in his mouth and not do anything with it. Finally seemed to get the hang of it yesterday morning and fed a few times but short feeds, then fed on and off pretty constantly through last night. I saw her Sunday and said that the baby looked very jaundiced, apparently on Monday looked even yellower...midwife finally turned up this afternoon (we'd rung and chased from Sunday!) and sent them straight to A&E.

He's now in intensive care under the lights, they want to put a tube into his stomach and feed him formula while running a battery of other tests. My other sister and I are both breastfeeding and have offered to express instead of the formula but told 'we don't do that in this country'(!) But this isn't really my question, I'm presuming they will do what they need to to get the baby well. Its really that my sister is desperate to breastfeed once this is all over so I've told her to ask for a hospital pump and get expressing. How often should she express to try and get and maintain her supply? bearing in mind her milk has only just started to come in.

Sorry this is long - no mental energy to try and edit. Any help welcome. Thankyou.

I can see that they can't officially accept your milk, as it milk donors are heavily screened before giving to the milk bank.

The most important thing is that your sister is supported to pump or hand express.

The actions for hand expressing will all help to make pumping more effective, so use hands first to get milk flowing and then pump.

Look up Breastfeeding Network website, loads of info sheets on there.

Phone the BfN supporter line: 0300 100 0210

Mine was caused by A o B compatibility Was scary but soon responded to lights

I would express and tell them the milk is your sister's, it's not up to the hospital to decide what to feed her baby imo!

I had bloods taken post-natally in order for the midwife to assess whether I needed an anti-d jab post-natally. I had the anti-d jab, but in the mean time the haemotolgy dept sent a sampleof my blood to the National Blood Service because the levels of anti-d in my blood were not commensurate with the anti-d jabs I'd had in the past - and indicated that there might be a problem with me/ds2.

Meanwhile was at home thinking what a lovely alabaster skin ds2 had and how he had managed to avoid scratching himself unlike the older 2, when in fact he was getting more and more anaemic. :(

BUt all's well ... he's a lovely healthy 16 month old now.

No problem zgaze, do pm me if you need to. Everything moves very quickly in nicu and it's hard to keep up when you are so worried. The consultant literally took dd away from my breast as she was feeding to start the light treatment. I was a wreck. They just tale no chances with such tiny babies.

Ditto to the others - every 2-3 hours and at least one session at night, with a double pump when milk is in. Then get as much skin-to-skin and bfing attempts as possible.

Its tough when you want to stay with your sick baby, not express but it's good for them and bfing afterwards is def possible. DD is now thriving on ebf at 6 weeks having spent her first 3 days in scbu and then needing bottle top-ups.

They should be encouraging your sister (the mother) to express regularly, and should lend her a hospital grade pump.

She shouldn't need your milk, but better this than formula IMO. Having said that, the hospital won't accept it as it won't have been screened.

Actually her sister could push the hospital to screen her for blood-bourne diseases and sign a disclaimer wrt using unpausterised milk. Or of course just put her milk in her sisters pump bottles.

There's a vast body of evidence showing that breastmilk is by the the most superior food, especially for babies in NICU/SCBU, and that initial use of formula impacts on future health.

And I do hope the baby recovers very soon :(

Sorry, only scanned thread but just wanted to say I did every 3 hours when dd2 in nicu/scbu. Hospital grade pump a must. They wouldn't give her the milk bank milk because they save it for the youngest/smallest babies. Half the time they forgot to give her my milk & it stayed in the fridge grr! However the tube feeding had a positive outcome, the tube meant that we could build up slowly with the bf, she was bf from about 3 weeks to 11 months when she self weaned - I only managed 4 weeks with dd1 thanks to cracked nipples & mastitis. Best wishes to your sister & her baby.

I'm worried if I try and pass off my milk as hers they will think she's already producing loads and therefore not give her the support she will need to actually get expressing / expressed feeding going.

Hopefully tomorrow when more staff are on and we know more about whats happening with the baby, we can talk to relevant people and see if there is a way around it, possibly signing disclaimers and the like.

Why isn't she expressing?

Just spoke to our mum at the hospital.. apparently our sister told a health visitor there that I gave the baby a (4 minute) feed yesterday (because we were worried he wasn't latching onto her properly, we knew I'd be able to feel if he was or not, plus I was worried because he didn't seem to be feeding as much as he should have been so wanted to get some liquid into him). The health visitor was disgusted, she said that my milk was for a different baby of a different age(my baby is 10 weeks)!! Soooo.. what about women who are tandem feeding babies of different ages?!! or the months-old cows milk in formula?!!! I understand if people have issues with shared feeding (I felt a bit funny about it when we discussed it when we were both pregnant, but it seemed completely normal yesterday), but surely giving him a bit of my milk was ok?!!

She is in a room on her own at the moment trying to express with a pump they have given her. Haven't heard how she is doing yet.

• or the milk in breastmilk banks?

Also apparently the consultant with our sister told her they would use formula because once the breastmilk from the bank had been screened and pasteurised it wasn't any better than formula.

In many countries, and indeed throughout history, this was normal, accepted practice.

In this case, the best possible course of action is for your sister to get busy expressing herself. She really should be fine, don't worry.

Having had a baby in NICU, and no help expressing, I still found it easy (yet irritating). The real help will be needed with establishing breastfeeding proper.

Loopyloops - she's trying. They only went into hospital earlier this evening, and her milk only really came in today anyway. They've given her a hospital pump and she has managed to express some already so thats positive.

'lazygaze' hello I'm surprised the HV didn't say 'we don't do that in THIS country you know'

Best of luck for your sister and the baby.

This situation makes me very annoyed. It is only in the last century that "civilised" women have tried to do motherhood on their own. (I have no citations for this so you're welcome to ignore my theory!) When our forebears lived in more tribal communities, women of the family would look after the new mother and the baby for the first hours or even days, I think. If mother couldn't yet feed, an auntie would probably be lactating and would wet nurse until the mother was up to it. Mum recovers, baby gets some nourishment, everybody happy.

Now midwives are taught that dried cows milk plus synthetic additives reconstituted with boiled fluoridated mains water is better than that baby's auntie? Huh???

I'm sorry that's not helpful but you (OP and other sister) are trying to do a good natural thing and it really grips my shit that you're not 'allowed'. Much love to you and your sister, hope it all gets very much better for baby soon.

Only scanned this but when DS1 went in for jaundice at 3 days old, they FF fed him and I expressed every 2 hours including thru the night to get my milk to come in. Only tiny amounts to begin with, which I then topped up with FF to make up the right amount.

Nurses very unsupportive, btw, and I had to take my own pump & steriliser in. And fight to be able to do it!

But it needs to be every 2 hours to get her milk in and established - it's exhausting but worth it. My DS recovered v quickly, btw, and we went on to BF for 12 months.

Really hope it works out for your sis.

I know. I am sitting here still furious, and upset. Us three sisters have sat and talked about feeding each others babies once we realised we would all be lactating at the same time - we couldn't decide then whether it would be really weird or not. We just kind of laughed about it. But this whole situation since Saturday when we began to get worried how sleepy the new baby was, and that he wasn't feeding as we thought he should - it just made me realise that I wouldn't think twice about latching him on myself if I thought it would help.

How sad that society has turned so far in the other direction.

Honestly, she'll be fine, the baby will be fine, don't worry. :)

I know, I know

zgaze - there are a lot of things in life that you feel a bit ewww or weird about until you are actually in that situation then you don't skip a beat to do when it comes to it - love is a powerful thing!

I hope he is much better by the morning x

Didn't want to read and run, just wanted to wish your sister the best.

I'm currently donating to my local milk bank and have been told that it's the next best thing to actual mothers breastmilk a friend of mine who's a midwife said it was far better than formula.

Every 4 hours inc through the night. If she's not sat by teh cotside then looking at a photo of her baby will help with the letdown reflex. Hand expressing will be better than a pump at this stage until she's producing better quantities.

I think if your sister kicked up a fuss then they couldn't stop your breastmilk been used. The baby is her baby and she doesn't need the nurses permission to give the baby her sisters' breastmilk.

I'm sure your nephew will make a speedy recovery now phototherapy has been started.

How are things this morning? Really hope the light treatment is working and that it is nothing more serious.

HI, I have only had chance to read this very quickly but I just wanted to say what fabulous sisters you are. I think that you are being an incredible support to your sister and clearly have not let 'scoiety' supress your natural instinct to provide nutrition for an infant that needs it. Hospitals have their policies and protocols which mean that they are unwilling to let the baby have your milk which is such a shame but at least your sister has such an amazing support system which will in turn help her own milk supply. Anything you can do to make her feel more reassured will help, I ditto frequent puming (every 2 hours for no more than 20/30 mins). Even if she does not get much milk make sure she tried to not get disheartened the stress may well have an impact but if she keeps pumping once she is home snuggled up with her lovely baby then the milk will more than likely coming flooding out! Pumping now will keep stimulqting her supply even if she only gets a few drops.
I hope baby will be home and feeding fruiously really soon.
INcredible sisters, what a lucky baby to have such a family. (Take care of yourselves too.)