I think I have lost the battle with the bottle

[Giddyup]

I posted last week about my DD resisting BF. www.mumsnet.com/Talk/breast_and_bottle_feeding/1125918-is-this-a-nursing-strike and
I received some good advice and I thought on Fri I had it pretty much nailed again. But since then things have gone really down hill.
Today I have had to give 3 bottles Formula as DD has either started screaming as soon as I try and feed her or fed restlessly for a minute then refused to continue.

If I don't give her a bottle she can't sleep and just gets more and more upset, she has also started waking in the night again. I am expressing when possible but it's really hard as I don't want to express milk so then if she latches on and finds none it will put her off more.

Also I am on my own with both DC 24 hrs a day from Monday 7am - Sunday 4am as DP works in London and we can't relocate at the moment. So Bfing takes up ages, add to that bottle feeding, expressing and sterilising etc and I just can't do it all.

Also I still feel like I have milk but can't seem to express much at all. I can never get that much (4oz maybe) but now its more like 2 and she takes around 7oz for a full feed

I just don't know what to do any more, I feel so guilty but also am worried the more I force the issue the more it will ruin this wonderful time with my wonderfully easy and contented last baby. She gets so distressed and stops as soon as I give her a bottle

When the bloody HV wanted me to start topping up regularly again (as opposed to a couple of times a week) I told her I was worried about it ruining BFing and I stupidly believed her when she said it would be fine.

Bottle feeding your little one is twosome time and just as rewarding as breast feeding. I have done both. BF first child for first few months. FF 2nd DD from birth for various reasons at the time. No difference felt in mother & baby time.

For today's FF mums, I really feel for you with all this advertising on bus shelters and TV re: breast is best. Cos sometimes for all sorts of reasons, its just not.

PS Wonder what the slogan would've been if didn't handily rhyme?

Thanks for the kind words GrannyMo I know what you are saying is true as I FF DS from 16 weeks. With him I was actually closer to him once FF as I really hated BF. This time around I love it and really really don't want to stop yet.

Sorry, I don't have any real experience, but I'd strongly recommend you call one of the helplines tomorrow- I've found them really helpful in the past.

Thanks Loopy, yes I think I will. I am a bit scared in case they think less of me for wanting to give the occasional bottle though. But HV is shite, she is obsessed with DD sticking on her line. She was born way up above the 99.6th and both her parents are under 5ft 9 so I am not worried that she is now around the 75th.

I am not usually worried about the lack of expressing it is just that it means I can't ride this out with EBM.

It is only now I feel I may not be able to continue that I have realised how much I want to BF for at least 6 months. Also we are going on an extremely exiting long haul holiday in a couple of weeks and I am not sure how it would work if I have to FF.
This has coincided with DDs pooing routine changing too, she has gone from every 4 days to 3 or 4 times a day. I am not sure if this is relevant.

DP is around a little more next week and his mum might be up for popping over the other days. I will write a list of the different things that may be relevant and call someone after taking DS to school.

I feel that contacting a support line would be best for you. You mentioned that you baby is fighting at the breast. This may look like they are fighting but the baby actually does this alot of the time to stimulate your letdown (they are very clever). It may be helpful to consider your attachment and positioning when baby is feeding. It is really useful to go to a support group as many of the BF helpers will talk you through the process.

Do not know whether you have looked into nipple confusion this is the thought that baby gets confused when introducing bottle feeding. This is because the action of sucking from a bottle is different from the breast. I was convinced that my daughter had this as I tried to introduce bottle feeding expressed milk when she was 10 weeks and it took ages to get her back on the breast so I waited till she was three months to do this again.

Sorry for the long winded response but I really can feel your longing to continue breastfeeding I hope you find some support locally. I went to BFN if that helps :)

Giddyup - I am a breastfeeding counsellor with NCT. I promise you, no one will think any the less of you for giving formula. We do not judge, we listen and we support you in finding the way back to doing what you want.

Many, many mothers have given formula before they call us - for many reasons.

I agree that you need to talk the thing through as there are different ways to return to full breastfeeding.

Topping up can seriously undermine breastfeeding, but it is not your fault that you believed the HV - it was her job to know the facts :( :(

I hope you'll call.

Great advice tiktok no one is here to judge as long as mom and baby are happy :)

She feeds totally normally at night/in the early morning and has had a bottle on and off since birth (maybe 3 a week once my milk finally came in). They have only been regular (1 a day) for a couple of weeks. Could nipple confusion happen even if we had no probs before? She was sleeping through or close to it every night (11hrs ish) but now isn't so is obviously a bit unsettled.

But she definitely prefers the bottle, I am unsure if it is because of let down problems or slow flow as sometimes when she pulls off it is spraying everywhere. I didn't know if part of it may be that she is starting to get more efficient at feeding. From her monster sleeps I assume that apart from the odd top up my milk must be satisfying her.

Ideally I would like to BF but still want to be able to give the occasional bottle (formula or EBM) as she is a huge baby and I have a lot on my plate right now( I am supposed to be writing my dissertation at the moment too)

Thanks for responding

Thanks TikTok

FWIW we had quite a few problems with bottles. We spent a week getting it sorted and then gave no bottles for a few more weeks. Having learnt more about the process of bottle feeding and tips on how to feed a baby with bottles, we've not had a problem since.

I phoned the NCT and the lady I spoke to was lovely. She couldn't offer that much advice as she said normally it is a slow flow or let own issue when babies prefer bottles and thayt doesn't seem to be the problem in our case.

She suggested trying a bit of a babymoon when I can. DP phoned and suggested I could try nipple sheilds (he hates being away and not being able to hlp practically). The NCT lady sadi that is worth a shot too.

Today i have just let DD feed as and when she wants to. it has only been for 5 minutes at a time and only 3 times, each time only one breast. Whereas up until last week feeds were around 45mins and usually from both breasts. I haven't offered a bottle as she seems happy and content and is napping well. I am wondering if maybe she has just got really efficient at feeding and has been taking the bottle just because they have been offered iyswim? She is actually napping much better than usual today but is happy and content when awake. I hope I am doing the right thing? I guess time will tell tonight if she keeps waking up or not!

If she is contented then that is a REALLY good sign. She may well have become more efficient at feeding. My DS2 fed for no longer than 5 minutes at a time almost from the word go and it really worried me, but he was fine. Watch your baby and follow her cues. If she is contented, alert and pooing/weeing regularly then she is fine.

yep I am. I am in that new mum zone where sleep must be protected at all costs. So have maybe been worrying a bit too much over that and trying to keep her daytime intake up to sustain my the blissful nights sleep I have been having. I guess she will tell me if she needs more. I will probably be back later with a complete 180 flip again when something else happens!

DD didn't have a bottle until bedtime yesterday, and only had 4oz. But, she then woke up at midnight and 3am. She has been sleeping around 8hrs since birth and usually nearer 12. She also stayed awake for a while at 3am, which is totally unheard of for her!
All her feeds yesterday were tiny. She is a bit sicky and had a terrible bout of windyness yesterday afternoon.

Today she fed for about 10mins at 7ish then when she woke hungry at the baby clinic she completely refused to feed and got really distressed. I came home and she has just fed for about 5mins, been a bit sick and won't take anymore. She is chewing her hands though.

So, I am again at a bit of a loss what to do. I think I will phone a local breastfeeding support worker and see if they can see me as the drop in isn't until next Tues.

Thank you for asking

Although the feeds aren't long, it's really good that she is taking so many. Also completely normal for feeding when out and about to be disturbed. You sound really down, but you have some encouraging results there.

Remember not to take it personally or think any of this is a reflection on you.

Getting as much RL support as you can is great. I remember grabbing whatever I could get hold off as otherwise I might have broken.

Also if she's taking shorter feeds it's a good sign that she's waking up in the night to catch up

Good Morning! I spoke to a local breast feeding advisor yesterday and she said it sounds like maybe my milkflow/letdown is too fast for DD at the beginning of feeds and she maybe prefers the bottle as she can just suck gently. I was a bit about that as she is such a guzzler and it has never been a problem before. But I tried her positioning ideas and she has been back to her boob loving best! I think maybe it5 is the constant flow in a bottle that she likes. So, have been trying to mimic that by starting feeds with me leaning back and her sat up then gradually changing our position as the flow slows down.

DD only took a 2oz top up before bed. But had band wind overnight. Due to her constant feeding I had to just do a quick dinner for myself and DS last night and it would seem Jacket potatoes with baked beans was a bad move!

I am having lunch with my lovely boss today, so will try and BF while out but not force the issue and will take a bottle with me just in case. I can't really cancel and have been looking forward to it for ages but it isn't ideal timing. I told her the issue and we are going to a pub with secluded little booths where I can have a good go at tempting DD on.

Yesterday was up and down DD wouldn't feed in the pub so had a bottle. She fed a bit in the afternoon but not at bed time so I gave her another bit of a bottle.

As a consequence of her not feeding so much in the day (I think) she is now sleeping worse than at any point in her life! last night she woke at 12, 3, 6.30 and finally 7.30am. The thing is she doesn't seem that hungry then either. I know that sleep probably doesn't sound bad but she has done 8hrs since birth gradually rising to 12 and its tiring doing it alone. Also, ots the fact her wake ups seem pointless; if she was ravenous I could see the point in us both being awake. I am off to my mums tonight which will be helpful as i won't have to do much. But my mum has been convinced breast milk isn't enough for her even when she was sleeping 12hrs a night!

Today she hs had 2 small feeds, but nothing like what she was having before. Maybe she is just feeding more efficiently now but she never seems to empty my boobs and it doesn't explain the night waking.